I guess it's time

[Melorie]

Wow Averaged somewhere around 100 million + registered accounts over 11 years. That's a little under 5 million new registered users per year of the game's existence.

But FFXIV was born in a completely different context and era from WoW. You can't just grab numbers and compare them, WoW history and success has to do with timing, too. MMO market today is not the same from 5, 10 years ago.

Also, why have such grudge for a game? To the point that you want to see it decimated. That's nonsense and blind hate.

[zosia]

But FFXIV was born in a completely different context and era from WoW. You can't just grab numbers and compare them, WoW history and success has to do with timing, too. And I don't see why you would want to see the game "decimate" or anything like that. Why have such grudge for a game? To the point that you want to see it decimated. lol

Then people should not act like this game is second to wow, because it's not. They are not even in the same league of success. As your points are valid about the different climates, I was not the person who initially brought wow into the convo.

If people want to act like this game can even stand in wow's shadow, then I think it's right to contrast what ever data people might want to bring up about this game, such as being the second most subbed to mmo.

As to my grudge, I have supported this game from 1.0 until now only to get spat upon by the dev team and casual players. I found a better raiding environment in a different game, so I am more than happy to delight in the misfortune in a game that did not care for players of my ilk or myself included.

[Melorie]

snip

It is. Like it or not. When you think about successful sub-based mmos that are alive till today, it's normal to people say FFXIV and WoW (maybe EVE too) and there's nothing wrong with that. You don't even have to like FFXIV to acknowledge that it is successful, being a sub-based and themepark mmo in a time that this isn't a very popular route for MMO genre. If you love WoW and find it a better game okay, it's your opinion, but please stop acting like some kind of fanboy that insists in making comparisons without some context. I'm sure that if WoW was released in 2013 being a remake of a financial-failure game it would not have the same sales today, not because the game is bad, but because of the timing.

Alas, I don't even know why people are so surprised. I mean, it's not like FFXIV 2.0 was hardcore from the start, was it?
And still, you want the game to decimate just because it's a more casual-inclined game, seriously? So everything that doesn't caters around your interests should fail? Please, step out of your bubble. The world does not round around you nor should a game. To be honest, if you didn't care about the game you wouldn't be here discussing in this thread and if you're but still don't care, then please go make some tea, relax, find something to do because that kind of hate for a game is just sick.

[zosia]

It is. Like it or not. When you think about successful sub-based mmos that are alive till today, it's normal to people say FFXIV and WoW (maybe EVE too) and there's nothing wrong with that. You don't even have to like FFXIV to acknowledge that it is successful, being a sub-based and themepark mmo in a time that this isn't a very popular route for MMO genre. If you love WoW and find it a better game okay, it's your opinion, but please stop acting like some kind of fanboy that insists in making comparisons without some kind of context. I'm sure that if WoWwas released in 2013 being a remake of a financial-failure game it would not have the same sales today, not because the game is bad, but because of the timing.

I never said this game was not successful. There is definitely a semblance of success, just no where near as robust as you might like to think. This game can't take it in the shorts like wow did sub wise. This game has a meager active player base and acting like the current end game is fine as is only exacerbates the problem.

An endgame climate where people are "giglamesh or bust" into this games 2nd (really it's 3rd) expansion is not a good sign. Go ahead though, pretend that everything is ok, pretend that this game is great at retaining players and pretend that the content we receive is both satisfactory in volume, depth, and quality.

SE the company, not the dev team, was hell bent on running this game on a skeleton crew and now it's starting to show. SE the company deserves to have this golden goose cooked, especially if ff15 turns out to be as clunky as the demo was at e3.

Alas, I don't even know why people are so surprised. I mean, it's not like FFXIV 2.0 was hardcore from the start, was it?
And still, you want the game to decimate just because it's a more casual-inclined game, seriously? So everything that doesn't caters around your interests should fail? Please, step out of your bubble. The world does not round around you nor should a game. To be honest, if you didn't care about the game you wouldn't be here discussing in this thread and if you're but still don't care, then please go make some tea, relax, find something to do because that kind of hate for a game is just sick.

I want this game to do poorly because it deserves to do poorly. No, the game should not cater 100% to me, that is ridiculous to assume I feel that way. What I do feel is that if a game is going to drag raiders through content the dev team cannot even clear in it's entirety (looking at a4s), then the players that participate in that content should be rewarded for such a monumental amount of effort.

ARR raiding was great and then the dev team took a big steamy one right on top of the raiding community in heavensward. Why am I so salty? Because literally almost all my friends quit because the endgame is garbage. While I have been complaining on the OF for months about what has been killing the endgame, the dev team has done NOTHING to fix the raiding community.

This game does not deserve end game players. If the glamour fest casual core crowd can't sustain the game after the rest of us "hardcore elite" leave for other games, then this title deserves to fail.

[RiceisNice]

ARR raiding was great and then the dev team took a big steamy one right on top of the raiding community in heavensward. Why am I so salty? Because literally almost all my friends quit because the endgame is garbage. While I have been complaining on the OF for months about what has been killing the endgame, the dev team has done NOTHING to fix the raiding community.

While not as aggressive, this is how I felt with raiding as well. ARR Raiding felt right for me as far as the difficulty and design was concerned.

Things that I would be able to clear with my static in about 2 weeks for each turn doing 2-3hour nights for 3 days a week. I'm not going to cover it; savage is way too demanding of the group to be able to succeed and clear, and I do not have fun having to push for content like that in a game (and neither were 4-5 other people in the static). It all goes back to how there's a severe lack of middle ground as far as content is concerned, you have things that are laughably easy, EX trials, and savage. People will tell me that raiding in this game isn't for me...well it was in ARR, so what gives?

Question, what -exactly- about unique stats makes the content you are fighting better? If you say options, I mind you that people will always go for what is best, no matter how you make the system.

If it means new gear will be exciting, then I'm all up for that. I mean people do the optimization anyway, except the only thing we have to show for it is higher numbers. Not faster attacks, more procs or other bonuses. An example from WoW with tier sets was that it gave bonuses where you'd get a stacking buff from one abiltiy that boosted the crit chance of X ability, or a straight up increase to duration. Heck you could say it'd make it more interesting for theorycrafters to see if it's optimal for that bonus or get other pieces that have better substats.

The problem with trying to do something like that in FFXIV is that there is a severe lack of gear within the same relative ilvl. There's only ever two pieces in each tier that have the same ilvl, because we only ever get 4 bosses per raid cycle and theres no other sources.

[Velhart]

If it means new gear will be exciting, then I'm all up for that. I mean people do the optimization anyway, except the only thing we have to show for it is higher numbers. Not faster attacks, more procs or other bonuses.

That is fine (I guess?), but just remember, they shouldn't add bells and whistles to gear in expense of the quality of the content. I am for set bonuses similar to WoW (if done right), but some slight restructuring would need to be done to the system we have now.

A system like that however can easily break gear options. If a 5/5 set has something that just blows the alternate set out of the water, that is pretty unbalanced. This was mildly a thing in WoW, at least when I played it.

[RiceisNice]

That is fine (I guess?), but just remember, they shouldn't add bells and whistles to gear in expense of the quality of the content. I am for set bonuses similar to WoW (if done right), but some slight restructuring would need to be done to the system we have now.

I mean...this is the case for any update they try to do. Unfortunately it really feels like a lot of corners were cut for hHavensward, and the players have paid for it. My point is that "people will always optimize anyway" shouldn't be a good reason to not add more diversity to something like stats, because people do this anyway with the substats whose only impact is your numerical dps, not actual gameplay. I don't even want to raid hardcore, so even provided that I'm in a static and we had a raid suited for us, I'm probably going to mess around a bit with something like set bonuses or equips as we get them, but I can;t even do that when they're literally nothing but numbers.