Players Who Don't pull their weight.

[Eldevern]

And this says more than 1000 words what type of player you are.

Hum... do you realize saying things that way can make you appear not like the helpfull -even if exacting- person you rather pretend to be but just like a presomptuous self-proclamed pgm looking down on other who disgree with you?

Using your way of thinking I could reply : you're not world first just shut up, If you really wanted and really are this awsome you should be world first, you're not? You're to lazy to be.

Do you understand the problem?

I know I'm going far but this is starting to get on my nerves. To be honest.

Were is the line between having good excuses and being lazy? You're not world first, you will be the first to find excuse, the same excuses your are refusing to other. Using your rules, this question lead to ask you if you see the thine line. I will not start any kind of accusation but you should better pay attentiion about the consequences for yourself of your way of thinking.

[Saito_S]

In case you didn't see when I said it the first time, I could literally give 2 poops less about what trolls think about me. So if you think "i'm not looking so hot"... all I can really say is... cool, man! Good luck next time, my friend.

Huh. I thought it was only the Mean Elitist Tryhards that engaged in that whole "if they don't agree with me then they're trolls!" fallacy? Coulda sworn I saw someone espousing that viewpoint in another thread recently...

Translation: This person has a different opinion than mine so they must be a troll!

You really need to take off your tin foil hat. If you want to "solve problems" as you put it, offer suggestions instead of always being so negative towards anyone who doesn't think like you do.

Oh right!

You tell people to offer suggestions instead of "being so negative" toward others, then tell people who criticize you that you don't give a flying rat's ass what they think. That makes total sense.

This thread is incredible. I've read most of it (over the course of a few days), and it seems to me that the reason it's gone on SO long is that the "pro-low expectations/don't expect good play in DF" side keeps taking the ball and running to one extreme end of the field after every play. I don't even know how many times the "anti-low expectations/at least TRY to play your job at a basic level, please" side has - during this thread - explicitly denounced being mean to people, explicitly agreed with the idea that it can be difficult if you have someone who is legit doing their best but simply isn't able to play this game very well because you don't want to be mean to them, explicitly said this is mainly about people doing even LESS than the bare minimum, etc. Yet every page or so, someone comes roaring in with accusations that the "anti-low expectations side" is advocating insulting people, or advocating that people with disabilities that make it harder to play should be banned from the game.

To stave off anyone quoting certain posts and challenging what I've said above: naturally I don't mean that literally EVERYONE on the "anti-low expectations side" has been a shining beacon of civility and reason. There have been people on that side who've said things I disagree with (for example, a page or two back, Seraphix said that if one person can "nail" a rotation in a couple hours, anyone can, and I don't believe this is true in the blanket sense he stated; someone else since challenged him on that and he backed off on the idea).

I also believe that any kind of system where players can rate each other, and your aggregate rating would have consequences in the future, is a terrible idea and would never work like its advocates want it to.

None of that changes the fact that people aren't asking for super amazing elite high level play when fighting the Spriggan squads in Copperbell Normal. But spamming Blizzard 2 when you're across the room from any enemies? A healer literally waiting, standing there doing nothing until the tank loses a sliver of HP then casting cure 1 then going back to waiting? A dragoon spamming one move over and over?

No one is saying people who do that should be banned from the game or sent to prison. People ARE saying that such play isn't acceptable, isn't "that's just how I play!", and that others in the party have a right to be upset by it, to (politely) call it out and offer advice, etc. People ARE saying that the idea that we should all just suck it up, carry them (yes of course it's possible to carry someone in DF. lol), and never say anything to any of them because "that's just DF lawl" is absurd.

[Greedalox]

ah and btw in 10 years no one will give a shit that someone did 1800 dps in whatever raid :P because u know its just a game :P

In 10 years you're not going to care about a lot of things, even if it IS real life. Actively avoiding doing well because "future me won't care" is kind of silly, don't you think?

[WinterLuna]

ah and btw in 10 years no one will give a shit that someone did 1800 dps in whatever raid :P because u know its just a game :P

I'd like to remind you that you yourself are posting on a Forum and playing a game that probably won't exist in 10 years. Just saying.

[Seraphix2407]

Do you understand the problem?
I know I'm going far but this is starting to get on my nerves. To be honest..

Nah you aren't going too far, I take no offense of what you said. Me being world first? Far from it, I could If I wanted to, because I know I can. My exuse? I play with my friends and we are all either students or people who work with random scheludes, that's why we setup days we can raid through google sheet. Not saying world first doesn't have jobs, because I know some of them and I'm well aware they all work, but my group has a way tighter schelude which would lead to less raids than them.


My problem, because I do understand the problem, I just don't understand yours. Players like him pretty much sponsor bad play. Look at the person who sits afk and watch youtube while the pet heals while he follows, while he replies: How is it harassment if he is doing his role? How is a guy forfilling his role while being afk? This is pretty much the whole thread been about, well almost. People don't follow a simple rotation, doesn't apply heavy trust, leech of players being afk. That's my problem and this guy do that, sponsor bad play.
I'm well aware how I think and type. Many people have followed me on many of the threads like this one, but want to know? Many people disagree with me but there is alot more who actually agrees with me. I'm sure you don't agree with me and that's fine, after all this is a forum where we can disagree, but sorry to say, I don't agree with people fancy others being lazy or bad players. This sort of attitude is not only ''pissing me off' but it also gets on my nerves that people actually have the balls to tell people to keep the bad play going on. There is a thing between bad and great, which I'm totally fine with, however many in this thread doesn't show that, they tell people it's fine to keep the bad play.

Again you never offended me, you have the right to say whatever, but I will not backup what I said, because they agree to bad play being acceptable and to me, screw that.

My whole problem with this thread is the people who keep putting words in other peoples mouth and let people think bad play, being carried is the new meta. Have you seen what people say in this thread? They expect a decent gameplay not top notch, if someone do that hell yeah why not? However I don't. But the big problem is, many in here aren't decent, they are bad and they keep telling people it's fine. That's my issue and problem. I'm not going to say you support them, because I can somewhat see your point of what you told me, however I won't back up what I said. There are some real serious and toxic people here, no wonder many player's don't have the chance to get into good groups or clear things they want, because some dude told them it's fine to keep the bad play.

[Colt47]

Even though I play DRG I'm not really a big fan of Blood of the Dragon myself just feels so tedious and not very fun to keep up. It feels like they tried to give Greased Lightning to DRG but they didn't want it to be the same so they made it like this which i'm not really a big fan off. If it was a constant buff that stayed there without needing to keep it up I will be fine with it.

That's how I feel when running it. The other two abilities that trigger off it are fine though I'd like it a lot more if it were a predictable combo, such as one going off of the debuff combo and the other going off of full thrust.

[MagiusNecros]

That's how I feel when running it. The other two abilities that trigger off it are fine though I'd like it a lot more if it were a predictable combo, such as one going off of the debuff combo and the other going off of full thrust.

It's a artificial skill ceiling. I would have preferred just a flat 4th combo for each combo set. So I can sympathize with how you don't really want the "Monk for dummies" DRG. And simply have Geirskogul as a flat oGCD burst skill every 30 seconds...like Elixir Field.

On the same token I would have liked my main class the BLM to have gained an attack skill that decreased the Enoch timer in the same vein that Geirskogul did. However I'll be disappointed if they do that for the next expansion instead of something unique.

[Khemorex]

In 10 years you're not going to care about a lot of things, even if it IS real life. Actively avoiding doing well because "future me won't care" is kind of silly, don't you think?

what future? withing a game thats gona be shut down at some point? :P
and what does that have to do with RL?

[Brian_]

I always hate when someone gives the "healer dps isnt taken into account in raid design" as a reason that dpsing as a healer is wrong. If you dont want to, go ahead, that isnt necessarily wrong either but it also means you aren't a great healer too (just average).

Healer dps not being taken into account during raid design doesn't mean "Yoshi doesnt want us dpsing" it just means that he doesn't want it to be entirely necessary as long as the groups' dps players are great. It still helps and Yoshi doesn't frown upon it. If he did, healer dps wouldnt be mentioned in the Hall of Novice

It's also just wrong. He made that statement with the caveat "assuming appropriate ilevel." As to what that ilevel is, it's probably max ilevel given the tuning of A3S, A4S, and A8S. If your healer isn't DPSing, you aren't clearing those fights. Anyone who does the content knows it's complete BS to say healer DPS is not needed.

[Aarik]

In case you didn't see when I said it the first time, I could literally give 2 poops less about what trolls think about me. So if you think "i'm not looking so hot"... all I can really say is... cool, man! Good luck next time, my friend.

Huh.....now that's interesting....lemme see here....

Obysuca, again, none of those posts say that everyone is like that. You're still grasping at straws here.

Referring to:

I've never once said that anyone who questions my playstyle is an Elitist.

So, according to you, everyone that agrees with Klamor's post (in his argument against you) is, in your words

I could literally give 2 poops less about what trolls think about me.

, a troll. Yet you totally deny using blanket statements. Buddy, I've been trying to see both sides of the argument for this entire thread, but you're making it very hard to take you seriously.