Alienation of Dedicated and Skilled players

[Ilenya]

I actually think Yoshida desveres more than this. I mean, he saved their asses (for a while, until the cow stops). One day, just one day, when he actually get more money, resources etc for a lot more content, then most RPer will bat an eye and whine about they didn't get the new fashion vanity, but instead they have to do battle content. I pray this day come, because It will put a smile on my face. Not because I can get more stuff to do, but sitting back and see how they struggle and then say they gonna quit game because there wasn't enough vanity lol.

Funny. Most RPers would just...Do the content. Shocking.

...Wildstar flopped. A lot due to failures in marketing...

Gee, NCSoft being a failure at marketing. How surprising.

I'm not bitter.

[Seraphix2407]

Funny. Most RPers would just...Do the content. Shocking.

Translation: "I want more content that only 5% of the server population can do and exclude jobs that cannot do optimal damage."

What does this say to you?

First and foremost, knock of the massive presumptions of what I do. You are not me, and therefore have no idea how I choose to spend my time.

Well from your older post in this thread it seems like It. I'm not trying to attack you, but you give me (maybe others) a vibe that it's only fine to have fun aka RP or sit around doing almost nothing but chatting to people. I'm sorry if you feel I attacked you, which wasn't my goal at all. But I still stay on what I said, you do preach of and make it sound like ''just because I don't like it, we shouldn't have it'' sorta attitude.

[Ilenya]

What does this say to you?

It tells me that he isn't talking for me with his translation?

I feel like I should make my actual stance known before someone takes anything I say way out of context.

I do not personally run high tier things. I don't savage, and I have yet to actually be in an Ex fight when it was actively the highest tier primal (except maybe Shiva? I dunno.) My reaction to Coils locking the 1.0 story behind the high tier raid was basically to hold off on it, since I knew I wouldn't be very good at it, and wait until I could get a chance to actually run it (I think I went into T1 before echo, but nothing afterwards, just as an example. Also, still haven't finished it, but mostly due to not knowing the fights at all at this point.)

I get why people are complaining about the lack of content designed for horizontal building as opposed to vertical, but at the same time I personally am not worried. If they get it in, cool! More power to the people who run it. If not? I'm not worried.

That said, trying to set this up as an "Us vs. them" in regards to what is being released is basically trying to break up the playerbase for no good reason whatsoever. It is entirely possible for multiple things to be worked on at once, so potentially SE could set up a group of people who only work on the more hardcore-style aspects, and I would be perfectly okay with it, even if I don't run it myself.

Also, though I am sure this has been mentioned before, if they do add horizontal gearing they'd have to do it carefully, mostly because the playerbase would latch onto "X effect is best effect!" and basically make the other options relatively pointless.

[Caelum_Dragguell]

That said, trying to set this up as an "Us vs. them" in regards to what is being released is basically trying to break up the playerbase for no good reason whatsoever. It is entirely possible for multiple things to be worked on at once, so potentially SE could set up a group of people who only work on the more hardcore-style aspects, and I would be perfectly okay with it, even if I don't run it myself.

Thank you for understanding this concept. I don't want less for those interested in other content, just more for those that do. (for the love of god don't twist my words or offer some baffling nonsensical counter argument)

[Ilenya]

Thank you for understanding this concept. I don't want less for those interested in other content, just more for those that do. (for the love of god don't twist my words or offer some baffling nonsensical counter argument)

Honestly, I would love it if SE could get more groups working on different things. I have no idea if this was changed for Midas Savage, but I recall some of the playerbase having an issue with Gordias Savage that the fights seemed less interesting because they were forced to do the normal Gordias first. Now I know they did this so more of the playerbase could see the story (Coils taught them that one), but I would imagine that something better would be to keep the story, but actually have different fights altogether for the savage fights, instead of similar fights with extra mechanics. I have no idea if that would be workable (Probably not, since I assume right now one group works on dungeons and balancing), but that would at least prevent people from burning out on similar fights just gearing up for the Savage fights.

Also, weren't the 24-man supposed to be the middle route for gearing up for the hardcore content? Whatever happened to that beyond "LotA not ready for 2.0, put in BCoB, quick!"

[Seraphix2407]

It

No, I completely understand you. I know some people choose to do it your way which I did mention few this in this thread and on these forums in general I respect. It doesn't tell me or give me the right to say, HEY SQUARE ENIX STOP PATCHING 90% OF THE STUFF WITH GLAMOUR AND 10% CONTENT BUT IT MIGHT FLOP?!

You said something there ''if not? I'm not worried'' You see, people complain for every single thing that happens. There is a difference giving criticism and whining. The whole buttler and maid outfit made many people explode. If it never happened, it wouldn't worry me either, however it made people happy and I'm glad. But I'm sorry to say, many in this thread make it sound like ''if they add content that most can't do, I'm going to unsub' Hence the quote I gave you. Saying 5% of the population on each server can do it is... yeah not so smart. You know that there could be added content many could do easy like midcore one, like weeping city is a perfect example. But don't worry I get your point and I'm glad you posted it in some more depth.

And it's like you said, even if it's added and you chose not to do it, that's fine, if not that's your choice, easy. Sadly people in here take it as a threat. Thanks for understanding, kudos.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Who is even saying anything about a slow multi month grind. Please Direct me to where someone has said this. Referring to FFXI seems Taboo here in that when someone merely mentions it, it is instantly viewed as someone WANTING that grind. NO THEY DON'T. We just want meaningful stats. It could take maybe a day or a week to get said items depending on which route you take. NOWHERE IN THIS THREAD does ANYONE say they want a yearlong grind to get one item and NOWHERE in this thread does anyone actually want a system where only one way of playing is optimal. If the Dev team actually works on making stats differentiated then we could have some faith in them that they would make them interesting enough and balanced to a point where they are all viable.

Fair enough. Let's cut out the grind aspect. Being able to fully customize your weapon/gear sounds amazing, but the issue remains people will eventually math out the most optimal stat allocation and expect you follow along or you won't get into a static. No amount of differentiation will change that because of how damage is calculated. The most you could possibly see is some sort of elemental or status effect on your weapon. But then Black Mage and Summoner lose a bit of their arsenal if Dragoons can tag thunder procs.

Well from your older post in this thread it seems like It. I'm not trying to attack you, but you give me (maybe others) a vibe that it's only fine to have fun aka RP or sit around doing almost nothing but chatting to people. I'm sorry if you feel I attacked you, which wasn't my goal at all. But I still stay on what I said, you do preach of and make it sound like ''just because I don't like it, we shouldn't have it'' sorta attitude.

Considering I made no mention of RP nor has anyone else, I don't see how you reached that conclusion. Nevertheless, my stance isn't, "you shouldn't have this," but that SE won't overhaul a system that their larger audience prefers simply to appease a much smaller crowd.

If they can find a way of catering to everyone, fantastic. But I doubt we'll ever see horizontal progression of any kind in this game.

[HeavenlyArmed]

Fair enough. Let's cut out the grind aspect. Being able to fully customize your weapon/gear sounds amazing, but the issue remains people will eventually math out the most optimal stat allocation and expect you follow along or you won't get into a static. No amount of differentiation will change that because of how damage is calculated.

Hello? Hi, I've explained numerous times that this claim is just straight up wrong, and it's an insult to the community that anyone believes it. As long as things are even slightly well balanced, more interesting stats and some sort of horizontal progression can absolutely exist in this game more than just superficially as you claim.

[Ilenya]

Hello? Hi, I've explained numerous times that this claim is just straight up wrong, and it's an insult to the community that anyone believes it. As long as things are even slightly well balanced, more interesting stats and some sort of horizontal progression can absolutely exist in this game more than just superficially as you claim.

Honest question, what does that make the Strength tank meta for people who preferred Vit tanking?

[HeavenlyArmed]

Honest question, what does that make the Strength tank meta for people who preferred Vit tanking?

Poorly balanced due to Vitality having very minimal benefits at the time. That's why it was fixed. You can still min-max for a little extra damage by using certain Strength accessories, but Strength doesn't have benefits that massively outweigh those of Vitality anymore. Back then because the balance was so poor, and due to the content necessitating it due to absurdly high dps checks, there was no competition for a serious raider. You went Strength as much as possible or you didn't raid. However, the fact that VIT tanks existed in other content at the time despite this only serves to strengthen my argument. You had some players who would be jerks about it, but outside of the highest level of content this was the furthest thing from the norm. And even in that highest level of content it only became the norm because the content of the time necessitated it.