Alienation of Dedicated and Skilled players

[Ilenya]

right, but there was no point of gearing up in the first place. All your money wasted on materia/crafting material was pointless because all I had to do is wait for the lvl to increase to 51. I didn't have to spend Gil or time working for those nice glamor items. the lvl 51+ gear was enough to make anything you wanted in 2.55. So i can stop playing now and come back at lvl 61 and not miss out on anything because lvl 61 crafting gear will be better than lvl 60 ilvl xxx crafting gear. crafting gear will be handed out like candy in the story quest and sell on the market board/NPC for cheap just like during 3.0 release.

That 2.55 gear may last to lvl 56 or so, but all i did was craft up the lvl latter to 60 with zero effort.

There was no point in gearing up...At what point? Are you saying the people who geared up to prepare the pentamelds for those who did Coils wasted their time? Should they have just waited for 3.0 to hit to make those items, because I know that there was no way to successfully make those items without properly geared jobs or insane luck. You're basing this idea off of "Since I know X years down the line it's worthless, I shouldn't bother" forgetting that the entirety of gearing up was built on top of what you were doing already.

[Fricca]

If stating basic common sense like taking a break from a MMO when burned out is alienating you then you are doing it to yourself tbh.

Everybody should take a break from any MMO they are playing if they are finding themselves suffering from burnout... It's a game not a job... Hell even in jobs you take time off.

No.

Not liking where the game is progressing towards =/= being burnt out.

You completely missed my point.. There shouldn't be an argument. We're not depriving you of your fun nor preferred content, we just want more content that has depth and meaning for us if not for everyone. You know, memorable and fun ones, not face-roll ones. But right now it seems like a lot of people are dismissing it as "you guys just don't know how to have fun, there are other things you can do in this game to have fun". The Devs are already spending "a lot of time" (i just can't get over it when they said that on the live letter) on emotes and stuff so you pretty much got your slice of cake. Why not be open to other developments? Why tell us to quit the game instead? I don't think that's fair at all.

[MihaelB]

There is nothing worthwhile to work for in this game in terms of progression, the lackluster of economic drive is a prime example.

I liked the rare drop of the Mhach Coffin when it was 100mil+ as it was something that you could work for with excess gil and something you could appreciate when you had it.
What can you spend 100Mil on now? What is the point of earning gil?

Why do you gear? To raid? For more gear? There needs to be something special after the raiding, after your accumulation of attempts in something and striving.
Orchestration Rolls were a nice addition to the list of reasons you would venture into raids/ bosses.

E.G
Rare minions that are tradeable.
Rare recipes from bosses that are tradeable. --> This would work for crafting/combat synergy and promote either to work hand in hand.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'm sure anyone, for example, would love to have their time and effort rewarded with longer lasting gear. Your Relic. From 2.0 having relevance in today's patch would be sung to high heavens. But instead, it's treated like trash and just used as silly stepping stone to "save time". That turned me away from this current relic because SE isn't about doing something new or making your gear long lasting. It would just be a waste of my time and effort. Look...That minority is actually trying to make the game better, but we're being ignored because it's not "financially better".

Even I can tell you that the majority will get bored eventually if they're being spoon fed the same formula for years to come. Playing "Safe" isn't going to work forever.

And I'm not saying the game should be a direct XI-2. I'm saying the game should just have more going for it. If you'd stop twisting my words, that too would be nice. I want Eorzea to feel more than a lifeless, pretty landscape. I want the community to interact more with each other. But this content that we have is not going to do it.

They really wouldn't. Why? Because it would necessitate at constant upgrade as new content became increasingly more difficult. Hardcore raiders want the best gear as fast as possible to get into Savage upon its first week of release. Being forced into a lengthily detour to improve their existing gear essentially gates them from the content they actually want to do. If you keep a static ilvl, then bosses pose less of a challenge as you're already equip to handle them from a damage perspective. You only need learn their mechanics.

No. You are projecting a system you subjectively believe better and simply telling the majority "you'll like it." No offense, but that comes across exceedingly arrogant. People like the current game as is, otherwise they wouldn't represent the overwhelming majority. Now that doesn't mean FFXIV is without fault, but also doesn't mean your overhaul will appeal to even a fraction of this audience. If they wanted to play FFXI, they would. Or seek out an equivalent styled game.

I have not twisted any of your words. They simply don't sound as good when held up to scrutiny. To you, Eorzea may feel empty. The majority don't feel the same way.

[Seraphix2407]

This thread so far: Because I don't like it, it shouldn't be there.

The majority don't feel the same way.

Oh they do, trust me they do. It just doesn't feel empty to you because you sit in a spot doing RP. Everywhere else is empty.

[Caelum_Dragguell]

No. You are projecting a system you subjectively believe better and simply telling the majority "you'll like it." No offense, but that comes across exceedingly arrogant. People like the current game as is, otherwise they wouldn't represent the overwhelming majority. Now that doesn't mean FFXIV is without fault, but also doesn't mean your overhaul will appeal to even a fraction of this audience. If they wanted to play FFXI, they would. Or seek out an equivalent styled game.

I decided to check back up on my thread instead of leaving it be and I see someone who isn't even trying to see things from our perspective when we currently live in yours. Look in a mirror and see the arrogance. When someone is unwilling to try new things they die on the inside at some point, or never were really alive in the first place.
I only want the dev's to consider switching up the formula to make the game more interesting. Also to those saying I'm "Burned out". How is logging in day 1 of patch 3.3 and doing almost everything it has to offer in 1-2 days (like 8 hours maybe of playing) then being forced to stop due to lack of content being burnt out? You can't get burnt out if you're hardly playing.

This thread so far: Because I don't like it, it shouldn't be there.


Oh they do, trust me they do. It just doesn't feel empty to you because you sit in a spot doing RP. Everywhere else is empty.

*nods*

[Lorielle]

They really wouldn't. Why? Because it would necessitate at constant upgrade as new content became increasingly more difficult. Hardcore raiders want the best gear as fast as possible to get into Savage upon its first week of release. Being forced into a lengthily detour to improve their existing gear essentially gates them from the content they actually want to do. If you keep a static ilvl, then bosses pose less of a challenge as you're already equip to handle them from a damage perspective. You only need learn their mechanics.


No. You are projecting a system you subjectively believe better and simply telling the majority "you'll like it." No offense, but that comes across exceedingly arrogant. People like the current game as is, otherwise they wouldn't represent the overwhelming majority. Now that doesn't mean FFXIV is without fault, but also doesn't mean your overhaul will appeal to even a fraction of this audience. If they wanted to play FFXI, they would. Or seek out an equivalent styled game.

I have not twisted any of your words. They simply don't sound as good when held up to scrutiny. To you, Eorzea may feel empty. The majority don't feel the same way.

I don't even... Alright. Sure. No one likes gear lasting longer. You clearly understand. Sorry. I shouldn't have argued.

Again, this can be flipped. Careful not to walk into your own trap. Of course the path of least resistance is going to be the majority. That's human nature. And there are people that sought out XI(former XI). I already mentioned that, but I guess you ignored that already, yeh?

But you're saying that the minority doesn't matter because we're a smaller voice? That's cool. And you're calling me arrogant.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

This thread so far: Because I don't like it, it shouldn't be there.


Oh they do, trust me they do. It just doesn't feel empty to you because you sit in a spot doing RP. Everywhere else is empty.

Based on? FFXIV is among the most successful SE titles ever released and literally saved the company from bankruptcy. It remains tops in active MMOs across the entire genre, yet everyone apparently thinks it's empty. Right. Funny thing is... Balmung's the most popular server in the game, but has a poor raid scene. Imagine that.

[HeavenlyArmed]

This is why I advise my static and my friends against using the forums...

The amount of completely idiotic responses from people in this thread is astounding. Someone asks for just a little depth and they:

• Want to be a special snowflake with content only they can do
• Should just fall in line with the dressup sim mentality of everyone else

However, unlike most people in here, I can talk about my ideas, why I think they would be good, and explain why we shouldn't jut be happy with more of the same all the time. First, as someone who has actually played Wildstar, I want to address some of the comments I've seen about it, and how it's actually a good example of other claims people are making being just not true. So, that game is dying. We all know this. Why is it dying? Well, if you try to claim it's any one thing, you're a moron. At release it was a buggy mess with hundreds of unaddressed problems remaining from the beta, painfully dull leveling and such a monstrous grind to get to endgame content with attunements alongside massive amounts of permanent character improvements you need to make or at least be well into the process of making that it turned a lot of people off. On top of that, PvP was a non-competitive mess arguably even worse than Wolves Den, they had a convoluted stat system and gear drops in raids that were far worse than crafted gear you might happen to be carrying with RNG layered on everything four times over, and on top of all that due to one little video rumors spread that there was no content for any player who didn't consider themselves hardcore despite that video only being about raids. While a lot of the content was difficult for sure, most of it was never as out of reach as the word-of-mouth implied it would be/was. For all thesse reasons, WIldstar flopped. A lot due to failures in marketing, but also due to some very real problems with the game's core functionality and the fact that even now there are still bugs in that game that people reported back in its beta says more about the dev team on it than some might realize. The game didn't die purely because no one could do the content, it died due to very poor marketing alongside a whole host of issues within the game that unhappy players were able to make accurate complaints about for literal years.

Okay, so what does Wildstar actually teach us about people's claims in here? Oh right, that the "if you're not 100% optimal no one will do anything with you" idea is completely false. Not that we even have to look that far, as I'm sure most of us who've raided can say we've run with some less-than-perfect players in our time but kept running with them because they were fun to have around and didn't hold us back to the level where replacement was necessary. But even in terms of having multiple possible builds for a class. In Wildstar, I ran a suboptimal build for many months. Even when new builds became possible that made my own more and more outdated, I kept using this build. How many complaint did I get? Zero. Why? Because the difference wasn't anywhere near the difference you'd see in, say, taking a BLM who uses their full level 60 rotation vs one who role plays an ice mage. And that's the key thing to having some horizontal progression in the game, as long as it's balanced even slightly well, the issues people keep suggesting as inevitable will not actually exist outside of applying for a group trying for server/world firsts. The fact that the dev team in XIV keeps claiming otherwise is infuriating, and frankly, an insult to the amazing community this game has built around it.

So how do you add this sort of thing, where we have interesting stats to play around with and other content outside of raids that means something? Well, the latter part is already on its way to being taken care of. Diadem/Exploration revamps could be coming as early as 3.4 to make that less mind-numbingly boring, and Deep Dungeon is another concept that, like Diadem, has a lot of potential in this regard. So there's the interesting non-raid content, but how do you make it worthwhile? Well, materia as a primary reward is a good start. Though 24-mans and Aquapolis already do a good job of providing standard materia. But, what if new materia were added to these kinds of content as a reward, materia that unlock set bonus effects that actually change how your job is played slightly? Or maybe something else? Maybe it could be something as simple as allowing extra stat allocation for completing the content on that job? Meaning you go in and fully clear Palace of the Dead or kill the highest ranked mob in the Diadem revamp, and it drops an item that increases your stat allocation for the job you're on when you use it from 35 to 37? A small thing that players would have to be insane to require from someone, but something that players can use to meaningfully progress their character outside of the current content options. This is the type of thing OP is looking for, and it's a strawman to claim otherwise. These things wouldn't alienate the casual playerbase nearly as much as most of you seem to think it would, wouldn't be very hard to implement development wise at the simplest end, and would give players other reasons to log in and look forward to it.

Moving forward on the more interesting stat issue, there's a reason it's important to start discussing this now. In a recent interview, Yoshi-p clearly said that the team is considering removing the accuracy stat due to a number of very obvious issues it has. While this wouldn't be happening any earlier than 4.0, it's important for us ass players to talk about as it means there's room for another stat to be added to gear as a standard secondary stat. What stat might they add? Well, in my opinion this is one place where it really is best to look at WoW. I speak of the Mastery stat, a stat that affects each class differently that exists on general gear, and has some sort of effect that may adjust how you play. I think a stat like this would be absolutely perfect for FFXIV, as it would solve the issue of gear being boring that many people complain about, and do so in a way that is accessible due to being a standard stat on gear. How would I have it work? Add new traits for it to affect on each job, such as a trait for DRG where the more mastery you have the less time using a Gierskogul removes from your Blood of the Dragon, or one for BLM where you have a very very small chance to proc Firestarter with a Fire IV, and with more of this stat that chance increases. And the ideas could continue flowing for each different job. In my opinion, if accuracy does get removed from the game in 4.0, this would be the ideal stat to replace it with.

And now, some ungodly number of words later, I've explained my entire position on this debate and given examples of how it could be fixed without alienating the casual playerbase like most people fear. Was that so hard?

[Seraphix2407]

Based on? FFXIV is among the most successful SE titles ever released and literally saved the company from bankruptcy. It remains tops in active MMOs across the entire genre, yet everyone apparently thinks it's empty. Right. Funny thing is... Balmung's the most popular server in the game, but has a poor raid scene. Imagine that.

Okay...

So you like roleplaying, which is good for you. However I'm not into it but I have friends who are, so I respect their choice, however does that mean I should tell them not to enter a raid, primal or things like that based on what they do? Hell no. You see, most people who RP aren't into battle content for obvious reasons, so should I tell you to stop step in them because you will most likely wipe me?Hell no. You see, sitting in 1 spot all day isn't ''everywhere''. When people say ''everywhere'' they mean things to do outside your little RP box. You see there is much more than just pretending to be a cat. Hunts, raids, dungeons, story mode, crafting, the list can goes on. Now, the issue that OP brought up is, the game has patch every 3-4 months, which is either raid or catch up patches. These patches has things this game should had long time ago but they slowly adding them into each patch that comes out. So we look at content that ''actually matters'' Progression, because forst of all we aren't playing waifu simulator that some people pretend it is, MMO is a progression style game. You play to elvolve and progress, just like 99% of balmung players wanted that dress so badly, simply because it's a fashion thing. Sooner or later the hype is dead and you guys crave for something again.

I even read people been moaning about quitting their sub because they never released the gear for EU clients, which I do find funny because, holy shit if some people actually go that far for vanity lol. So if you look at it this way, many people and I talk many want's to progress and get better, much as you want vanity/glamour gear. Just because I disagree with you on some points doesn't mean I should cry on the forum that they shouldn't waste sources on things they could spend on something else. Look at golden saucer, full hype then flop. The minion battle? Full flop. None of these thing's actually has a meaning or progression to it. It's fine to have it there, no doubt but we seek more than this silly things that outdated soon. What about adding content that makes us progress?

Many in here talks about how old FFXI is. I know how old it is because it was my very first MMO and I was young when I played it. I know it has endless of content, but back before I quit it still had endless of content you would love to do everytime when you had the chance to. It was simply so much for me sometimes I just took a break from it and the feeling? Great because I knew once I log back on there is something that actually gives me progression. FF14 v2 has been out for nearly 4 years and been on the same formula since the beginning. For me I thought HW was gonna change things, in terms of raids, rewards and so on, but nope.

Ixal beast tribe = moogle. Alex = coil. Expert and random tomestone name = same capping, different name. 4 years!!!! When FFXI had expension pack back in 2006, or 2007, I forgot they added merit points, which made people adjust their skills, learn new ones and pick the ones you think would work great. Tons of new content and I talk about 2-3 new ways to raid on top of the old raid that still was relevant. You had city battles, where enemies attacked the cities and you had to defend. Alot of this stuff is missed and probably wanted by people who never touched FFXI.

You on the other hand saying limsa or housing area is everywhere is a bit stupid. In fact I see people in different places too, but news flash they mostlikely AFK waiting or simply just capping stuff then logs out.


Read about Yoshida talked about? Making people skip leveling up or story. When you hit the end there is almost nothing you can do besides raids. Last time I checked the subs went skyhigh after a patch then it went down a lot after a month or a few weeks even until next patch. Giving people max level and sit and RP all day isn't a solution, this is actually what makes people take ''breaks'' and never come back. Like I mentioned in this thread earlier, had a few guys playing the game, loving the story etc, once they hit max all they do is sit there and do nothing.

Last time I checked too, square enix have made a lot of failures and to be honest, I start to think they gonna make this game going to the wrong direction. Look at how awful FF13 was. Since it's kinda a trend square enix doing bad,no wonder people start to open their eyes and actually want to talk about these problems.

Anwyays... have fun sitting in limsa and think that everyone is going to do that, like I said, if you think paying 10 bucks a month is fine, so be it, but there are many people who pay the amount you and I do and expects more than just different sleep poses they spent 3 months on.

Too long to read:
Stop acting like this MMO is a waifu simulator/sim city, because it's not.