What can I do to stop this?

[Red_Wolf]

Reading comprehension is obviously not the strong suit of the users of this forum.

I am hardly saying my time has any more value than someone else's. I am saying that everyone has the right to enjoy the game within their individual rights. Others are making the suggestion that once you sign up for a roulette, you forfeit your freedom and the right to decide to leave.

And it's hilarious you imply adulthood is somehow different when real life is all about the interactions between individual rights and the compromises we make or don't.

And you insult rather than opening your mind a little bit. You are special.

Other people may have waited a significant amount of time for the duty finder to pop. They are ready to run whatever and whenever to get their reward done. But you on a whim decided you're too good to help those people run the instance that you signed up for, therefore you are saying that your time is more valuable than theirs. Now because of your selfishness all those people lost their spot in the queue and have to sign up again at the bottom of the list. Actions speak louder than words. You don't have to say your time is more valuable. You are just acting as if your time is more valuable. Let me clue you in on something... it's not.

[winsock]

Your reason for queuing originates from personal gain, farming tomestones, rather than as a by product of an urge for a good shared experience / a fulfilling run for your party-mates.

Full disclosure the argument I thought you were going to make is not the one you made; however, the argument you decided to make is much more flimsy.

Your grouping 2 different decisions together rather than treating them separately
* One is the decision to join queue
* The other is deciding whether or not to leave after the duty starts.

To be clear, no one is judging you for your decision to join queue, or your reasons for wanting to queue.

You're getting critism for the decision of leaving the group.

You clearly prioritize your own tomestones and time over the will of the leaver. SURPRISE! Their motive for leaving is probably the same!

As for what's not selfish -- doing anything with the primary goal of accommodating others.

You assumptions are wrong about my motivations. I stay in the party to accommodate others. I critize you in an attempt to help you realize your actions are not considered socially acceptable.

The final issue with your logic is the justification of your selfishness. You try to justify your actions stating that other people are selfish. This not only is a huge assumption about the motivations of other players, but it does not make your behavior any less unwarranted.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

I'm not sure why people don't just get over it. Everyone has reasons for what they do, and who are you, or I to judge? While leaving roullettes can be obnoxious, its not as big of a deal as others are making it. "Oh no I'm inconvenienced!!", "Oh man that guy is a dick for leaving!!", why does it even matter? People are bickering over a small amount of wasted time, just leave the duty when someone else leaves, and re-que, and move on with life. OP asked why people do it, and there are a few different reasons, but much like has been said already, no one here has to explain why they leave or stay in a duty, its no one else's concern but your own, and not your problem to try to police "The Way" -YOU- want people to act. If you don't like it, cool, you voiced your opinion, lets move on with life.

[Brian_]

And you insult rather than opening your mind a little bit. You are special.

I criticize because it's deserved. You jump into a topic without reading the actual posts and then sling out judgements and insults, then are shocked when people question your ability to read?

You're right, actions speak louder than words. It's just convenient you discount the actions that don't fit your narrative. If you read and understood the extents of the discussion, you would know that I also queue as a healer / DPS (all my jobs are at 60) and also have had my tanks leave. Clearly I think my time is more valuable than theirs because I went out of my way to shame them and go beyond the existing system of penalization... oh wait... I didn't. I take it in stride and just requeue. Why? Because I understand that my time is not more valuable than someone else's. I don't get to say my time is so much more valuable than someone else's that I have some societal right to judge and shame people for exercising their right to play a game how they wish to and change a system SE has said they are fine with.

But yea, actions speak louder than words. I wonder how your actions speak. The action of judging someone without even bothering to fully understand what they're saying. The action of lying and slandering someone based on ignorance and bias.

[Brian_]

Full disclosure the argument I thought you were going to make is not the one you made; however, the argument you decided to make is much more flimsy.

Your grouping 2 different decisions together rather than treating them separately
* One is the decision to join queue
* The other is deciding whether or not to leave after the duty starts.

To be clear, no one is judging you for your decision to join queue, or your reasons for wanting to queue.

Yea, my arguments are so flimsy that you have to resort to twisting the narrative and still fail to present any type of counter argument. Instead you try to re-frame the argument into something different to try and claim some type of meaningless moral victory.

From my very first post in topic, nobody has confused this point and yet now you are trying to split them up. From very early on, people were attacking and judging the decision to queue with the purpose of tome efficiency and misconstruing the very nature of DF -- including you. So no, a lot of people are judging my decision to queue and the reasons for wanting to queue. How you missed this is bewildering. Just go back and read any of the long rants about my apparent "misuse" of the mentor roulette.

The final issue with your logic is the justification of your selfishness. You try to justify your actions stating that other people are selfish. This not only is a huge assumption about the motivations of other players, but it does not make your behavior any less unwarranted.

If you were actually accommodating to people, you would see someone who really doesn't want to run a specific dungeon and let them be. As I've said and repeated, people queue for DF with different motivations. If the goals of the group don't align, then that's too bad and you can only deal with it.

Also, within the context of my original post, it was not an assumption. It was a fact. The TC was queuing with the purpose of farming tomestones for his relic. I am not saying that any behavior is above criticism. I am saying that it is hypocritical to criticize one form of selfishness while endorsing another form of selfishness as if you're some innocent saint. As Nyghtmarerobu said, sometimes you just need to get over yourself, acknowledge that's how things are, and move on. Two wrongs don't make a right but criticizing one wrong while you are guilty of the same wrong and utterly blind to that fact makes you a massive hypocrite. That is what I've been saying.

[MahoSenshi]

There are two kinds of people. Ones who try to "git gud"(tm) and the ones who doesn't.
Personally, i never leave b/c "ugh, wrong dj". AV, ACRF, whatever. But sometimes RNG gives you shit teammates, who clearly slacking and want to be carried or just fine with not trying to perform better (yes, ppl can be new and its ok if they're trying). Well, if they don't want to clear dj fast and ok with a "nice and slow run" they can enjoy a nice and slow re-queue.

[winsock]

If you were actually accommodating to people, you would see someone who really doesn't want to run a specific dungeon and let them be.

You still seem confused. How am I not accommodating the leaver? I don't talk to them after they leave and can't prevent them from leaving. I even leave dungeons if I need to... to change classes and queue for the specific in progress to help the group the leaver abandoned in their selfishness

You are the only unaccommodating person in the DF scenario.

Further, your argument is has cyclical reasoning.
According to your logic, the rest of the group doesn't accommodate the leaver and that means that no one is accommodating. (Which isn't true as the rest of the party has no choice as to whether a leaver leaves)
However, if you chose not to leave, then everyone would be accommodating. In other words, you are the problem.

If you really believe your own logic and have a problem with ppl's supposed hypocrisy, just accommodate the group and suddenly these people are no longer hypocrites.

[Brian_]

If you really believe your own logic and have a problem with ppl's supposed hypocrisy, just accommodate the group and suddenly these people are no longer hypocrites.

Or you could just get off your high horse and stop telling other people how to play the game and use their time. That would also stop the cycle. And, that's also what I've been saying this entire time.

[Jpec07]

Or you could just get off your high horse and stop telling other people how to play the game and use their time. That would also stop the cycle. And, that's also what I've been saying this entire time.

There is a super huge, very large difference between discussing ideal player behavior (what we're doing) and telling people what to do (what you seem to think we're doing--the strawman). We may abhor the sort of egocentric, don't-give-a-rat's-arse-about-anyone-else behavior you don't seem to mind, and we might even suggest that people who behave that way are making the game less fun for other people, but no one is telling them they can't do that (indeed they can, there are just social consequences that they'll likely face).

But I have to give you credit to sticking to that ad hominem strawman you've set up and knocked down so many, many times in this thread. If not for your tenacity, this thread would have died out a while ago. The irony is that in telling us to "get off our high horses," you've set yourself up on the highest horse of all - a horse made of the same strawman you keep trying to tear down.

[Brian_]

Something isn't a straw man if people are actually saying it. In your second post you literally said that if someone can't accept your incorrect definition of a roulette, that they should not queue. Later on you said that people should enter roulette with the purpose of helping people and if they don't they might as well not queue. You are literally telling people how to play the game according to your ideals and still cry straw man when your crap gets called out. And, like I already pointed out, ideal is subjective. To me, your player behavior would never be ideal because you've chosen to play PLD and are fine with making dungeon runs slower than they have to be. But, do you see me on some high horse telling you to change your job or don't queue? No. I let you play the game you want to play.

And, just to prove a point.

I've done around 3000 dungeons. Even assuming I've left 1/6th of them -- which is probably WAY more than I've actually left, and assuming that it takes 15 minutes to requeue -- again, probably WAY longer as an average on my data-center, the math works out as such --

600 left dungeons, 3 other party members, 15 minute re-queue per person = 27000 total minutes wasted.

Now, assuming that I were like you and played predominantly PLD for whatever reason and didn't leave dungeons, the math works out as such --

3600 dungeons done, 3 other party members, runs are on average around 2-3 minutes longer (for simplicity, I will say 2.5 minutes) = 27000 total minutes wasted.

I would've wasted the exact same amount of my party-mate's time even with skewed leaver numbers.

But somehow I'm the one that has to change their behavior because I'm wasting the time of others.