FFXIV: The State Of Raiding

[KrenianKandos]

Truth be told, it would take a whole lot of changes for me to actually want to get back into Raiding on this game.

1) I just don't like Alexander as a premise. The story isn't compelling at all and the gear I can get out of Alexander is outclassed by me going and doing my weekly lore cap and buying the 230 gear. Could I get to 240 faster doing Alexander? Yep. Do I honestly care? No. I'll have it unlocked in 3.3 most likely with some sort of drop at the end of the Alliance raid that'll let me upgrade to 240, without having to step into it. The only reason I did Alexander was for the story.

2) I don't like how the loot is distributed. Getting items and requiring a set amount is fine, but when it's randomized between four different items that 'can' drop, you're essentially locking yourself out at some point to ONLY focus on one of the four sections in Alexander and competing against 7 others. (This is normal mode, anyway. I believe Savage is similar but you have a better shot of Midan gear dropping in Savage so you can also get lucky like that...). This means you could be stuck being defeated by the RNG bosses in order to get the 4 items required for Chest/Legs. This was the same for Gordias and now Midas. I don't feel like doing the same thing 20 times for an item drop that I get screwed out of because of RNG hating me that day. While I can understand I could get it on the first shot, the probability of that is low anyway. Either way. I personally did not like it and I would have rather liked them to just have a system where you get a token for finishing the level, and you need x amount for an item. That would keep it that you need to keep doing Alexander but you don't have to deal with the pain in the rear which is doing the same instance for one 'particular drop'.

For example, I never understood why they did what they did. Say that you have all four levels, and they drop one item per week you get for clearing it.

So you have 4 tokens. Let's say they kept the same number they currently have for their 'gears' as tokens.

Head: 2
Chest: 4
Pants: 4
Hands: 2
Belt: 2
Feet: 2
Acc: 1

In essence, you need 17 tokens to finish an entire set. That would take you 5 weeks to complete your gearset for your character. To me, that's acceptable for that gearset. It's also not the best gearset available (the lore one is in terms of ilvl) which means this would make it easier to gear up your alts and whatnot. Five weeks. Then, you leave the weapon to be a weekly end drop that requires you at least 7 weeks like they did as it's the biggest upgrade for all classes. And I only have to do the damn instance once a week and not spam it for a drop. I get the whole "get people to play the place to keep content relevant" but no, I don't like repeating the content over and over just because RNG is an arse. Sorry. Just doesn't work. Seven weeks of spamming the instance is more than enough for me to move on afterwards, or I can continue in order to gear my alt classes.

That would have been a bit better, in my opinion, as a loot system, than they have now.

3) The rewards to do Savage Mode are just..not there. I get Midan looking gear that is a whole whopping 10 ilvls higher. Whooptie do. Nothing interesting in the gear, just more stats. But that's a deeper problem that I have with not only Final Fantasy but with MMOs in general nowadays: I am so sick and tired of the vertical grind. And FF actually worsens it because they're so good in putting out content.

That's not a bad thing, but it definitely shows the flaws of vertical progression. Why should I bother getting the 'best' gear in the game when in 4 months, it will be on par with someone who takes a simpler, less stressful route? I get that some people love the challenge, and kudos to you guys, I envy you to have the patience to do so: But I honestly don't. And if I don't have the patience to do it and I see that I just have to wait a couple of months before I get gear that is on par with the raiding gear, then as a human being, I'll take the path of least resistance. And that's just how most people will do it. Especially in the N/A area.

The numbers don't lie: we don't clear Savage Mode all that much.

Personally, I agree that raids should have the best of gear. That's definitely not what I'm arguing against. For that matter, I feel like the raiding and the time put into the game in accordance to the work put towards should matter. That's why Relics and Raiding, to me, should be the best avenues, and not Lore tome gathering. In fact, the Lore tomes should not be any higher than 230, in my opinion, because it would effectively give you a reason to want to go into Midas if you wanted to further progress your character's power.

And the crux of the matter is: Midan gear doesn't matter. At all. All because of Vertical Progression.


Apologies for the long post but this has always been an issue for me since 2.0 and one of the core reasons why I never bothered raiding in this game. Until they realize that the way they have implemented the ilvl climb per patch is flawed for any sort of motivation, and the fact that Alexander's story is, simply put, boring as hell for most players, they won't really feed their raiding scene that much. A lot of us are just simply happy waiting on the next patch to upgrade.

The whole philosophy they have needs to change. Or they need to start offering different paths for progression. Raiding is NOT the end all, be all of endgame. It shouldn't be. Hell, we've had other MMOs that have constantly moved in other directions before WoW came in and pretty much took the crown on making Raiding the 'absolute' way to grind. There is more story that can be done besides always being thrown in a dungeon to wipe to mechanics in a game. It's a great mechanic but I'm tired of it. I want more. I want something different, more innovating, and also has the ability to show a story.

I'm all for group play but stop thinking that raiding is the ONLY group play that works.

Done ranting.

[Kaurie]

IMO encounters are spread to thin. If we compare WoW to FFXIV over the past year (I do this, because I feel raiding is the thing WoW does best) - WoW has added Hellfire Citadel and FFXIV has added Gordias, Midas, Bis, Rav, Thor, Seph, Void Ark.


In that, it sounds like FFXIV has added way more, but then let's break it down some more.

Hellfire Citadel 13 encounters
WoW: 13

Gordias 4
Midas 4
Void Ark 3
Bis 1
Rav 1
Thor 1
Seph 1
FFXIV: 15

Again, it looks like FFXIV is in the lead. However, then if we consider all the difficulties:

In WoW, there are 13 in LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic difficutly - (all of which are currently relevant.)
In FFXIV, there are 3 in 24 person DF, 8 in Normal, 4 in Trial and 8 in Savage - (3 in 24, 4 in normal, 1 in trial, 4 in savage which are currently relevant)

So, while FFXIV has more encounters (takes more time to design graphics, story etc.) WoW has more encounters per difficulty tier. This provides more encounters for each type of player to enjoy. If you are like me, who fit most well into the Trial level of difficulty, all you have to look forward to is 1 fight every few months that drops 1 weapon.

It comes down to three major issues from my perspective.
1. Uninteresting and very restrictive loot tables (i.e. in LFR you can get 1 item per boss so 13 items per week, where in 24 person DF you get 1 item per week - or in trials all you can get are weapons, etc.)
2. Massive dilution to appease a mass audience, resulting in very little content for each market
3. Rapid updates which make previous content irrelevant, rather than adding onto previous content

Then, there are some more personal issues:
1. Uninteresting story
2. Bland colour palette
3. Boring direct-to-arena queues
4. Frustrating fights that seem like they are designed more to be difficult than they are to be fun

[Thayos]

The whole philosophy they have needs to change. Or they need to start offering different paths for progression.

Raiders in this game often talk about coil like it was "the good old days." But really, coil had a very small completion rate back when it was current, too.

I don't understand why such an unpopular form of content is this game's only progression endgame. There's so much wrong with it. The hyper jump rope mechanics, the requirement to have groups of ONLY EIGHT PEOPLE, the need to have a static (and exclude others) to have a realistic shot at progress... it's such a waste.

[Kaurie]

Raiders in this game often talk about coil like it was "the good old days." But really, coil had a very small completion rate back when it was current, too.

I don't understand why such an unpopular form of content is this game's only progression endgame. There's so much wrong with it. The hyper jump rope mechanics, the requirement to have groups of ONLY EIGHT PEOPLE, the need to have a static (and exclude others) to have a realistic shot at progress... it's such a waste.

Did you come in to a "state of raiding" thread to talk about how adding raid content is a waste of time?

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

The primary issue I have with adding more difficulties is that it's not adding more content. The same thing "but harder!' is not new content. It's just an excuse to get you to do the same thing yet again "but harder!". I'd personally rather new content be added than just taking a shortcut by bumping up the numbers (maybe add another mechanic) and calling it new content. I criticize WoW for doing that very same thing.

[loreleidiangelo]

Did you come in to a "state of raiding" thread to talk about how adding raid content is a waste of time?

I think he is trying to say that adding new raids, with XIV's current flawed raid design revolving around permanent 8-man teams and synchronized swimming mechanics - rather than flexible "grab n go" groups with difficult, but less jump-ropey mechanics, is a waste.

[WeekendSoja]

You can't say that the "current hardest content" is meant to be completed by grab and go pugs. It's there as a trophy piece for dedicated raiders...

Do you need the i245 weapon and i240 gear to complete pre-savage content, no, do you need it to complete current savage content, if you answered yes to this than we need some kind of intelligence evaluation lol.

To be honest, I don't see a problem with the current raiding scene.

[Millen1]

I really like to raid though hard to find a group. I only have an A5S clear cause my friends were missing their whm that week. It would be nice if Savage dropped loot like the EX primals, more reason to do them. Sure the best of the best would have all the gear they want in a short amount of time but many others would still be working on the first few items. Loot motivates me, no loot, not a lot of motivation. I like savage as hard as it is, I would just like to be able to get more loot out of it for the amount of work that goes into clearing it. In A1S it rained healer loot. Took a month for our cast to get the pages for his first item while I was well geared out as a healer. 1 month effort for one ring on the first floor if you have bad luck really sucks. The second month was just as bad if I recall for him.

[WeekendSoja]

That's all RNG based when it comes to chest drops. Can't fault anything but a casino-like system, some people or groups just hit the jackpot more often than others. In this regard, if the roles were switched and it took you a month to get your healer gear and it rained caster gear, it all fell on the shoulders of RNG-sus.

To expand on what you said, raising is fun, no doubt, but if you have glanced at the current hot topic of parsers on the forum, people here are afraid of accountability. Having a hard time clearing this portion of the raid? Let's calculate a solution using these hard numbers from the parse...oh wait...lols jk ya'll.

I mean, real-time numbers provide so much more detail than just beating a stationary dummy but no one wants to step forward and be like, "it's me that's holding us back, but give me a moment and I will make the adjustments to push us over this bump!"

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Raiders in this game often talk about coil like it was "the good old days." But really, coil had a very small completion rate back when it was current, too.

I don't understand why such an unpopular form of content is this game's only progression endgame. There's so much wrong with it. The hyper jump rope mechanics, the requirement to have groups of ONLY EIGHT PEOPLE, the need to have a static (and exclude others) to have a realistic shot at progress... it's such a waste.

Raiding in general isn't unpopular, just the hardcore level. People who are asking for more content typically don't mean more Savage styled fights but trial level difficulty. From patch 3.1 to 3.3, we will have seen Thordan, Sephirot and Nidhogg EX. That's simply not enough long term to sate midcore players over nearly a year.