FFXIV: The State Of Raiding

[Toguro]

(Long Read incoming)

As many may know.. the raiding scene isn't as healthy as it should be. Not enough people are raiding, people are not interested in Savage, raids are deemed "too hard" and nerfs are requested even buffs from some. Midcore crowds do not want to kill themselves trying to beat Savage because Savage is too hard. They want more midcore content like Sephirot EX and King Thordan EX. Hard content that isn't too hard like Gordias and Midas.. but, is Gordias(Savage) too hard? is Midas(Savage) too hard? The answer truly is no. The content is Savage level and is meant to be brutally hard. The problem is how this content was introduced to this game. Savage right now needs to be nerfed so the midcore crowd can actually complete the content. Currently, waaay to few people in comparison to the population have completed Midas and Gordias. And that's due to the difficulty.

The content is Savage level and is meant to be brutally hard. The problem is how this content was introduced to this game. Savage right now needs to be nerfed so the midcore crowd can actually complete the content. Currently, waaay to few people in comparison to the population have completed Midas and Gordias. And that's due to the difficulty.

I see no fix for this issue that does not involve nerfing Savage. But how do we keep the hardcore savage-lovers happy if savage is nerfed and beat in a week? The goal should be to have all be happy. Even that minor 1~2% of the hardcore community. In FFXIV's current state it isn't fair to the 98% to have a raid that is brain-dead hard(brain dies from mental stress ) be a requirement to get a little stronger. And then soon enough all the gear isn't relevant anymore because the next patch comes. So the incentive is already lacking there, that's a fail. Then the gear is just a dyeable version of easy mode gear. Many many reasons why Savage right now should be nerfed because it's the difficulty:reward scale is just off.

Super hard raid -> +10 ilvl gear, +15 ilvl weapon, able to dye tome gear, minion(lol)
-patch comes..
Super hard raid -> +0 ilvl gear, +5 ilvl weapon, dyeing gear no longer exclusive now

Casual-only play -> full i230 before patch
-patch comes..
Casual-only play -> full i240(except ring) w/ relic, can dye gear

This is where the scale gets bad. I don't raid myself(EDIT: Only did Coils) but who would want to kill themselves over a +5 ilvl weapon and a minion while casual play can get you i240?

It's just not enough reward when you involve content so hard.

I think there is only one way to fix this... and I say adding the midcore difficulty. Its the only way to keep everyone, EVERYONE happy. I know Yoshida has previously said it would be hard to do but he at least didn't say "its impossible", right? Was just a staff issue. If a 3rd difficulty would be added it needs to be done a certain way. Here's the idea:

Raid(Story):
No changes. There is nothing wrong with these raids and they should not be touched.

Raid(Normal):
THIS should be the raid that has the Coil difficulty. The kind of difficulty that allows it to be completed by the best of the best raiders in a week. But remember best of the best. This raid will drop the raid-level gear(Ex: i210, i240, i245). This gives the midcore and hardcore the incentive to do hard(not murderously hard) content to get rewards and get stronger. Do NOT lock it behind Raid(Story). I've always thought this was a huge mistake on SE's part. They make people do the easy-mode and then they get Savage. But by then, they've already seen the content so now it is deemed "same fight just harder". So less interest. If Raid(Normal) is unlocked with Raid(Story) people wouldn't have to do story they can just do normal for gear. Make it a difficulty where Easy isn't required because of the gear. Or make other methods or something.

Raid(Savage):
Allow this raid to be THE challenge that hardcores want. Keep that A3S funeral difficulty. Savage is Savage and the best can beat it. Lock behind Raid(Normal). Raiders would by now, have the gear necessary to fight and take on this challenge. But what good would it be if the rewards weren't good? A raid of this difficulty should noooot have expendable rewards... I think a good idea of a reward would be non-gear rewards. How about exclusive cool-looking glamour rewards. Make them lv1 so you can wear at anytime. Can drop glamour(including weapons), minions, mounts, music, furniture, haircuts...? etc, titles from achievements. Anything that can last forever. It better be good too. And please, pleeease make them a guaranteed drop. Example: Beat A8S, chest piece drops. But not one, no, 2 drop. As well as other things. No one in their right mind would want to blow the brains up trying to beat Savage for rewards with a 3% drop rate that's stupid. Make it 100%. Either make 2 of each drop or allow a few things to drop every time. No weekly lockout. That's dumb.

TL;DR- Easy-mode the same. Make Raid(Normal) and give it midcore difficulty and give it current savage rewards for actual Savage progression. Make Savage hard like it should be. Remove any stat-boosting gear from Savage and add long-lasting rewards like mounts, lv1 glamour, furniture, etc.

In the end everyone should hopefully be happy..

[KarstenS]

Based on your assignment "Story", "Normal", "Savage".

Gordias was "Savage", similar to SCoB Savage in Coil.

But Midas IS "Normal", like regular Coil. Its just called "Savage".

[Brian_]

I don't get why part of the premise is that mid-core players need to complete Savage. Why?

I also don't get the point a mid-tier difficulty. What is the point of going through the same fight three times? It's just pointless content bloat.

[jack891]

nobody wants to do 3 difficulty tiers of the same fights. i personally feel a new raid entirely should be added whos difficulty sits between alex normal/savage but is completely seperate from alex with its own fights and story.

[Warlyx]

i raid because i enjoy the challenge and what not , but if u ask ppl around there are plenty of reasons and while difficulty is one of the reasons the are some important points that keep casual or midcore away from raiding

- Time : finding a static that raids the nights u can , or at the time u can ,isnt as easy as before , since there are less raiders

- Gil / time sink for Consumables : if u are a crafter include it on time because u will need lots of time to gather and craft the consumables , or farm the gil to buy the consumables, raiding is a gil sink , u dont gain any gil or any items to sell to recover the gil invested in food and potions. Raiders are doing the hardest content of the game and losing gil in the process. In every other mmorpg raiders have items to sell and non-raiders can buy it from the MB (gear , mounts , pets , or glamour stuff)

- The rewards : the loot itself is 10 ilvls higher , but is only usefull if u are raiding ,atm u can get 230 thats more than enough to do the DR expert , trials , farm , or anything even start raiding , u only need 240 if u are raiding ....dyable sets meh....gordias had a mount as final boss reward , 2 months and half of killing gordias for every1 to have the mount.... yawn...

[SpookyGhost]

Gotta get that raid gear to use it on... the next raid to get the next raid gear to use it on... the next raid to get the next raid gear... etc

There's not enough battle content in general at end game. Dungeons are fun the first time, then they're just The Thing You Have To Do every other time. Diadem had potential to at least fill some kind of spot in end game but then turned out to negate the point of the current raid and be completely mind-numbing. EX Primals are good, as far as mindcore content goes they excel really well, but the problem is that they last all of a week (at most). NM raiding, similar to dungeons, is fun the first time and then it's The Thing You Have To Do. Savage is better this tier than the previous one in terms of progressive difficulty relative to other content, but the problem is... it's basically the only unique thing to do at end game and is restricted to a lockout. On top of that, as I was pointing out in the first sentence, the gear is literally just used for the next raid as raid gear will vastly overgear you for the next EX primal in the odd number patch and there's nothing else to do besides that until the next raid.

So the problem is that everything either quickly becomes useless or quickly becomes the same thing that you need to do every day/week. Savage isn't entirely exempt from this, once you've beaten it it does become the same as all the other content, but due to the difficulty and the lockout restrictions it's lengthened to at least last quite awhile. But that's it, that's all you've got, and once you've completed it there's nothing to do with your rewards except wait for the next raid.

I agree with OP that more mid-core content needs to exist, and I think that everyone I've seen post here and elsewhere agrees with that. A mid-tier version of the current raid could be cool if handled correctly (ie not requiring those wanting to tackle Savage to run through it a billion times), though I do think using those resources for something a bit different would be better - maybe 8 man versions of the last 24m raid with saved progression points and EX Primal difficulty bosses. But I think we also need more Savage-tier stuff, so that you can branch out from Savage and use your new gear on other stuff. I feel like end game is just... completely lacking in well rounded battle content, the progression works but it's literally dungeons -> NM raid -> EX primal -> Savage. That is genuinely all there is, EX Primal is done in a week, dungeons and NM raid are just Repeat This Forever, and Savage is... well, it's Savage.

You'd think they'd be trying to expand on this but I'm legit not seeing it. Diadem, okay, at least they were trying, but are we even getting Diadem fixed or updated this patch? Palace of the Dead is cool but it's not 60 content and any gear you've gotten from the current raid is irrelevant there because you're scaled back to lvl 1. Sure, it's A Thing To Do but you could also just turn off XIV and play a different game. I dunno, could be completely wrong, people could be loving the hamster wheel of end game content, I'm just personally not a fan atm especially after it being a complete repeat of 2.0.

[Brian_]

I still have no idea why gear does not matter in Deep Dungeon.

And on that same note, I also have no idea why gear is synced in PvP. Why the hell did you put in morale if you were just going to force sync.

[randysquirrel]

I don't raid myself

I do, and find Midas to be just about the right level of difficulty for my taste. It's challenging, and every person has to pull their weight and cover certain mechanics, with things like silences and stuns falling to different people, times when everyone needs to help with mitigating something, etc. There is no other content in the game where anyone could give a fck whether I apoc something or not, and in the 2-3 years I've been playing I've never felt any benefit from using Surecast. I love that these are finally useful somewhere

you can't afford to have anyone trying to YOLO their way thru, with the rest of the group carrying them. This is the only real difficulty, partying with people that actually know their job

[Toguro]

What is the point of going through the same fight three times?

nobody wants to do 3 difficulty tiers of the same fights.

Well I did say not to lock Raid(Normal) behind Easy and only to lock Raid(Savage) behind normal. Which would essentially be like SCoB(Savage).

It wouldn't be mandatory to do easy to do normal. Skippable

[Toguro]

.

How hard is it? I've heard more than enough horror stories with A6S. But what about A8S?