SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

[Alacran]

Lets be honest here, it has always been about the cool factor. DPS want a Samurai who poses after his every strike, killing the enemy with one hit. That dose not happen in an MMORPG. Those that desperately want a DPS with a sword would much better be served tried staples of the FF Series, lets look at what I Believe to be a Red Mage envisioned as a true DPS (use of En-spells, casting of fire magic, ect...)


GIf taken from video clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KxjGn30PDA
(the some what popular character holding the "Katana" is not, as i understand a Samurai but a Soldier.)

Would it be so bad to get Samurai as a tank, Red Mage as a DPS, and Geomancer as Healer (melee style with a double voulge, think WoW shaman), this next expansion (or two)?

[Handheld]

Idk where people are getting that Yoshi P said it would be a dps.

A. He never said it would be a DPS only that his idea of a Samurai is a DPS.
B. When they were working on Heavensward the tank job came down to either Samurai or Dark knight and since they had recently released ninja they didn't want to release a second eastern themed job and Dark knight also fit the Expansion theme better.
C. Since it came down to either the Samurai or Dark knight jobs as the 2 primary tanks for heavensward you can bet that they probably already put alot of work into Samurai as a tank but at this point it could go either way.

[DWolfwood]

Not to sound rude but...

You should provide a long term reason why SAM may affect queues in the long term for Max Level/Endgame which is where the Tank Job will be truely tested.

In regards to long term, I don't think there needs to be more beyond the realization that there will be people who start this game and look at the jobs, and they will be drawn to certain jobs without giving thought to "roles." Tanking is not as bad as some think, and it certainly is not boring. There's the chance to change the misconceptions about it with brand new players, and we will certainly see numerous, "SAM(SHO) New to Tanking, Need Tips" threads.

There is also the question of what will deem SAM a successful Tank Job because what I deem a successful Tank Job is not simply by attracting new players into the Tank Job role but also if a decent amount of players actually stay and play as SAM.

Currently, Warrior tanks make up the majority of tank players. A little more than 50% I would wager, and I think a Samurai tank would cut into these numbers. What defines a successful tank in my opinion is similar, and I have faith in the development team to make a very fluid and solid samurai tank that is fun to play.

Looking at how you'd define DRK's success, I'll put it this way: I loved PLD in XI, it was actually my favorite tank ever, but as the game evolved, I was forced out of it. I switched over to a WAR main for end game tanking because all that was needed was an initial aggro before we just zerged everything down in a matter of minutes/seconds. In 1.x, I was a WAR main once again (actually thought it would be a heavy DPS based on the MRD description, but seems fate had something else in mind for me) and was one of the few that saw no need in going PLD, proving to many that WAR was actually an amazing tank contrary to what they'd believed. Going into 2.x, again, I was stuck on WAR, showing how amazing it was. 2.1 onward it was not even a question and took me awhile to dispel the myths of WAR that many had on my server.

The reason I bring all this up is because I had grown pretty tired of WAR, but I'm a tank at heart. DRK gave me something new and I finally found a new main. I've been a main since it came out and hope to see more positive changes for the job. There is no doubt in my mind that a SAM tank would be a success in these regards. Rest assured that if RDM or BLU had come out as tanks, I would still be a WAR main right now and be pretty disgruntled.

Would it be so bad to get Samurai as a tank, Red Mage as a DPS, and Geomancer as Healer (melee style with a double voulge, think WoW shaman), this next expansion (or two)?

I just don't see many people demanding that we get Geomancer. I think it could definitely be a healer and should probably be because healer options are limited, but I imagine it'll happen in 5.0 at the earliest. I personally see RDM as a great healer option considering the limited ones available, contrary to what some may think. While I don't think a healer in melee range will ever happen when you consider fights like A7S and Ifrit EX, I think RDM has the versatility to have a melee DPS stance, which I think a lot of players would love as well. The ability to DPS w/o purely relying on spells would probably be appreciated and all the melee-RDM ideas could be applied there. I can also see it as a support melee, but I think DNC should have that role in the future. DNC fails at being a healer/tank for the same reason I refute a RDM/BLU tank and why we can't have a pure melee healer. A chakram DNC doesn't sound very interesting to me either if you have them dancing constantly for heals. I think Dancing should inspire us to fight harder and better, not mend our wounds.

Having a RDM as a healer in duty would not interfere with its solo-ability, which I think would be its obvious strength as a "jack-of-all-trades, master of none."

[ADVSS]

Not to sound rude but...


There is also the question of what will deem SAM a successful Tank Job because what I deem a successful Tank Job is not simply by attracting new players into the Tank Job role but also if a decent amount of players actually stay and play as SAM. The last thing we need is SAM to become the Machinist of Tank Jobs where only the Vanity of using a Katana and SAM armor is keeping players playing as SAM while the Majority abandons SAM for the other older Tank Jobs because their gameplay is the same but depends less on a slight issue with their gameplay such as how Machinist is considered a RNG depended Bard.

They can definitely do this if they dont go shoving in 2 or 3 job mashups onto it just because. For instance an aoe provoke for "those moments" in a trash pull, when youre raised at 0tp and 0mp and the mobs are just mauling your buddies cause teddy t heals was dps'ing lol or a gap closer on the GCD. Then theyll have to look at balancing the job for real raid use ala no more of this reprisal gimmick, realize warrior is successful because its utility is available on demand as ot or mt

[EdwinLi]

Rest assured that if RDM or BLU had come out as tanks, I would still be a WAR main right now and be pretty disgruntled.

I mean no offense but you should not use yourself as a example as this makes people believe your support for SAM Tank Job is a personal nature rather than one based on possible outcomes we are assuming in this discussion.

Back on topic:
We do not really know how well SAM Tank or a Red Mage Tank will attract, keep, or increase Tank population as people do have different views on things and different desired gameplay styles. Even if they make SAM decent enough it may not affect the Tank population to have a noticable effect in the long term but simply shift a already existing percent of the Tank population into this new Tank Job and maybe a small increase but not enough for a noticable effect.

They also, as I have said before, must make a new Tank Job not outshine old Tank Jobs or else the game risk causing a old Job to be abandoned by already existing and future Tank job players.

[MagiusNecros]

The way I see it with Tanks with SAM and RDm is if you make SAM a tank it will be a melee/physical tank. We already have 3 of these.

RDM however has the possibility of being the first magic tank which offers fresh blood in the games tanking roles. And if RDM is jack of all trades and we can expect overall dps output to be low...then it's perfect for the tank job.

Only thing SAM has going for it in tank department is literally Parry and counterattacks. Which I imagine DRK was the testing ground for.

[Derio]

If you do add a lack luster tank job. And then add in a highly requested dps class. What exactly does that do to the queue system?

Remember what happened when ninja was added.

[MagiusNecros]

If you do add a lack luster tank job. And then add in a highly requested dps class. What exactly does that do to the queue system?

It will do nothing. Healers and Tanks will always be in demand and the DPS roles will remain bloated and congested. Nothing can be done about it.

[Alacran]

I only mention Geomancer as a sudo Shaman since there are members of the Ala Mihgan resistance that are classified as such. Given the much believed area that is to be the focus of the next expansion, i felt that it made sense that Shaman could in theory work as a Geomancer imo. Seeing as Blade Dancers (Dancer, RDM, BLU,) and Lancers (Templar) are also in the mix i feel there are a few options to choose from.

[Shippuu]

It will do nothing. Healers and Tanks will always be in demand and the DPS roles will remain bloated and congested. Nothing can be done about it.

Still not a reason to not try and do things to help alleviate the problem.