SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

[Ciri_Wolf]

I mean fair enough I guess. I still want both tank and DPS samurai jobs.

Elaborate on this issue you have with DRK, because as far as I'm concerned, MNK/DRG/NIN are all about keeping up GL/BotD/Huton and DoTs. NIN alone has the interesting Mudra mechanic. I find WAR and DRK to be far more interesting.

DRK's identity was butchered just so it could be a tank. It's supposed to be this magic tank, but even that feels pretty lackluster. Lots DRK players seem to feel the same. After getting my DRK to 60, I could see it. It's also doesn't help that it's parry ability only works as MT as well. As a DPS class it could have been an actual Dark Knight.

[DWolfwood]

DRK's identity was butchered just so it could be a tank. It's supposed to be this magic tank, but even that feels pretty lackluster. Lots DRK players seem to feel the same. After getting my DRK to 60, I could see it. It's also doesn't help that it's parry ability only works as MT as well. As a DPS class it could have been an actual Dark Knight.

As a DRK main, I definitely think they could work on it to bring out its identity more. It seems like this ragtag hotrod of abilities that just doesn't seem that well thought out. That being said, I think it being a tank was among the best decisions they made in heavensward. They have plenty time to keep building on it, and I think the design is far more interesting than had it been a DPS.

[Tanathya]

DRK's identity was butchered just so it could be a tank. It's supposed to be this magic tank, but even that feels pretty lackluster. Lots DRK players seem to feel the same. After getting my DRK to 60, I could see it. It's also doesn't help that it's parry ability only works as MT as well. As a DPS class it could have been an actual Dark Knight.

Agreed a 100%.

[Ciri_Wolf]

As a DRK main, I definitely think they could work on it to bring out its identity more. It seems like this ragtag hotrod of abilities that just doesn't seem that well thought out. That being said, I think it being a tank was among the best decisions they made in heavensward. They have plenty time to keep building on it, and I think the design is far more interesting than had it been a DPS.

DRK has always been a high risk high reward class. Personally, I would have loved to see a hard hitting DPS that sacrificed health. Not that SAM couldn't be a tank, but from all the past classes we have, I believe SAM can be taken much further as DPS.

[Shippuu]

It is when you regard them as "silly", when they're in fact well thought. You're in your right to disagree, but you can't call them out for bringing very good points.

To you those other arguments may be invalid, but you need to realize that you may not be entirely right. I did find some of the pro SAM-tank sillier (not unrealistic) than the pro SAM-dd ones, yet I can understand that they may not be so silly for you, so they're not.

They are absolutely silly or non-valid arguments. That's if they even provide arguments at all considering the last two people I asked to elaborate and provide answers for the numerous issues with their alternative options couldn't be bothered to even defend their claim. The pro SAM dps arguments amount pretty much entirely to "I want it because I like it." instead of making valid and actual points. The bottom line is, there is more benefit to this game's health if new tank jobs are added whereas there is far less benefit to only adding DPS jobs. Taking very viable tank jobs and making them DPS is a disservice to this game, plain and simple and asking for outlandish replacements that try to reinvent the wheel are unrealistic expectations especially when the developers themselves have spoken and shown they are not interested in making them different for the sake of being different. DPS players can put their heads in the sand all they want, but it doesn't discard the legitimate arguments made in this thread towards SAM tank.

[Ciri_Wolf]

The only argument I've seen for pro tank, is queue times. And we already know this is false. See: DRK.

[Shippuu]

The only argument I've seen for pro tank, is queue times. And we already know this is false. See: DRK.

Except when heavensward launched tank queues were not instant, so what you said is blatantly untrue. You're also deliberately ignoring the numerous other benefits I've spelled out multiple times.

[Ciri_Wolf]

Except when heavensward launched tank queues were not instant, so what you said is blatantly untrue. You're also deliberately ignoring the numerous other benefits I've spelled out multiple times.

When Heavensward launched. A couple weeks later queues were the same. If SAM could permanently affect queues I could see an argument. DRK fixed nothing for this game's tank problems.

[Katana190]

When Heavensward launched. A couple weeks later queues were the same. If SAM could permanently affect queues I could see an argument. DRK fixed nothing for this game's tank problems.

He's listed a whole lot more points then that, and to be honest I haven't seen MUCH mention of the queue times of the people debating actively. All I see are DPS players claiming we've said that..? I mentioned as well, do people seriously think SE make jobs to change the queue times? Jobs are made to add more flavour to the game and variety on top of balancing other jobs, like hopefully WAR gets balanced by another tank with a slashing debuff...

Edit: If Yoshi P really uttered those words and people can provide a source, then I'm obviously wrong. That doesn't change my opinion on it being dumb that jobs are added to the game with queue times in consideration, jobs should be made with raids in consideration and that's what annoyed me about some of DRK's toolkit, with the Blind/DA Dark Dance dungeon CD combination for example, and its counter productive play with Blind and Blood Price. But that's another topic.

[Ciri_Wolf]

He's listed a whole lot more points then that, and to be honest I haven't seen MUCH mention of the queue times of the people debating actively. All I see are DPS players claiming we've said that..? I mentioned as well, do people seriously think SE make jobs to change the queue times? Jobs are made to add more flavour to the game and variety on top of balancing other jobs, like hopefully WAR gets balanced by another tank with a slashing debuff...

His other points are just as superficial as the dps points. And most of his points are against RDM not being a tank.