This game needs better DPS feedback

[Snugglebutt]

It saddens me that you are so supportive of people playing sub-optimally and selfishly in a team-based cooperative game. In my opinion, that is easily the worst thing with this community at the moment.

The most important thing is clearing the content when not in a training party, not how fast you clear it or whether you were optimal in your rotations. Games are supposed to be fun, not just for you but for all the people present and as long as they get the job done that's all that matters. If you cannot accept that then you should stick with statics and not use DF, do content with the people who feel the same way you do instead of trying to force everyone else to play the way you want.

If they cannot get the job done then that is the only time people need to rethink or improve so the next time it will be. How fast or how optimal a persons rotations are is for people in statics who all agree to that play style, not DF for example in which the only thing they should be concerned about is actually doing enough to clear it/get it done. Show a little respect for others too and not just those who enjoy playing to the same standards or the same way you do.

[Kaurie]

The most important thing is clearing the content, not how fast you clear it or whether you were optimal in your rotations. Games are supposed to be fun, not just for you but for all the people present and as long as they get the job done that's all that matters. If they cannot get the job done then that is the only time people should rethink or improve so the next time it will be. How fast or how optimal is for people in statics who all agree to that play style, not DF for example in which the only thing they should be concerned about is actually doing enough to clear it/get it done.

I guess for me it is not about the importance of clearing it. It's the importance of working together as a team that I enjoy. If people are playing sub-optimally, it is insulting to the team. It shows they don't care about anyone but themselves, and just want a free ride for their reward. In a team game, I prefer to work with people who work with me to do the best we can do.

Personally, I have a very hard time relating or understanding the mental thought process of players who think otherwise. Generally, I feel I am fairly good at understanding peoples points of view and am a fairly empathetic person, but in this case it's hard for me to fathom.

[Snugglebutt]

I guess for me it is not about the importance of clearing it. It's the importance of working together as a team that I enjoy. If people are playing sub-optimally, it is insulting to the team. It shows they don't care about anyone but themselves, and just want a free ride for their reward. In a team game, I prefer to work with people who work with me to do the best we can do.

You can do that with statics. But you are being insulting towards other people too in not respecting the fact they just care about clearing it and not playing perfectly all the time in DF's. It's a two way street but if want a group where everyone plays the same way you do then you should use statics filled with like-minded people. This game caters to more than just the most hardcore and rightly so. To me what your saying is akin to claiming all the random people in DF's might insulting you by not doing speed runs. Not everyone wants to do speed runs for example, it's not an insult...it's the gambit you run when using random DF groups who did not agree to that as opposed to a static of people who did.

It is not hard to fathom, some people just want to clear it but are in no rush, some people don't want to use perfect rotations and optimal outputs for every single run especially if they already are stressed out and had hard day at work but for those that do there are ways to do so with people like them instead of berating others in DF just because they don't. When they cannot clear it provided it is not a training party, only then do they really need to learn how to do better. Elitism is also something that is damaging to a community.

[Kaurie]

You can do that with statics. But you are being insulting towards other people too in not respecting the fact they just care about clearing it and not playing perfectly all the time in DF's. It's a two way street

How am I being insulting to other players by playing well? Edit: I suppose you mean I am being insulting on the forums to selfish and lazy players? If so, then well, I don't really apologize.

but if want a group where everyone plays the same way you do then you should use statics filled with like-minded people.

That is fairly hypocritical. Why should good players have to go find like minded players, but lazy and selfish players don't?

This game caters to more than just the most hardcore and rightly so.

This game doesn't cater to me at all. It very much caters to casual players who care very little about the people they are surrounded by, and to the top x% of raiders.

It is not hard to fathom, some people just want to clear it but are in no rush, some people don't want to use perfect rotations and optimal outputs for every single run especially if they already are stressed out and had hard day at work but for those that do there are ways to do so with people like them instead of berating others in DF just because they don't. When they cannot clear it provided it is not a training party, only then do they really need to learn how to do better. Elitism is also something that is damaging to a community.

I can fathom that people want to clear. What I cannot fathom is how they can be so selfish and lazy to hold their team back, and assume that the other players are in the 'wrong'.

I dislike your use of hyperbole. There is a massive difference between pulling respectable DPS and pulling perfect rotations. I expect people to try, I don't expect people to be perfect. I expect people to pull greater than 70% of the damage output I do while making mistakes (something I have yet to see in expert roulette). I expect people to be respectful and mindful of the players they are with and actually try their best to work together as a team, and not just drag their feet caring very little for the lives of their teammates.

[Snugglebutt]

-snip-

I am not going to get into a shotgun style argument where take sentences apart and quote/reply to lots of sentences separately.

For someone complaining about how it is insulting to you that not everyone plays the same way you do or has the same goals or standards, you seem to be dishing out more insults towards others calling them lazy, selfish casual players who don't care about anyone else vs how insulting others are to you when they just want to clear something even though they might not meet your personal standards.

Seriously if you want to play with like-minded people who go above and beyond just clearing the content then it is on you to find such people, use statics or PF's with listed requirements. There are tools in the game to allow for such so make use of them, if someone joins such a static or PF who agreed to your demands but does not abide by them then your within your rights to have words with them. If use randomly pugged DF though then it is perfectly okay if others in the group just want to clear it, if they cannot clear it and it is not a training party...only then do they need to improve.

I gave you a different PoV, take it or leave it but don't throw a tantrum over it.

[whythehate]

The most important thing is clearing the content when not in a training party, not how fast you clear it or whether you were optimal in your rotations. Games are supposed to be fun, not just for you but for all the people present and as long as they get the job done that's all that matters. If you cannot accept that then you should stick with statics and not use DF
If they cannot get the job done then that is the only time people need to rethink or improve so the next time it will be. How fast or how optimal a persons rotations are is for people in statics who all agree to that play style, not DF for example in which the only thing they should be concerned about is actually doing enough to clear it/get it done. Show a little respect for others too and not just those who enjoy playing to the same standards or the same way you do.

Just going to explain this to you.

Last month I decided I would no longer use my main for content below savage, I fancied something different.

I choose drg, I hit the dummies to find out where I was dps wise and redesigned my hotbar (had switched from ps4 to pc so everything gets deleted)

Once I was comfortable with my button positions I checked dps and found myself at 1150 this was what you what say basic dps.

So I asked my friend for advice and searched the forum, after practising each day getting familiar with the opener (advanced drg opener is frigging chaos on a controller) I checked dps again and now I was sitting at 1500 a very nice improvement but I knew there was more things I could do to fully optimise, I began practicing in Alex since ya know mechanics. Each time I was putting out 1.2k+ per run, meanwhile all I see is people far below me.

After 4 weeks of training I'm now sitting comfortable at 1650 dummy dps and have a fairly decent understanding of this job. There's still more improvements to make but this is where it gets to the real min maxing.

When a parser user mentions bad dps, they are no way saying oh shit man you should be doing 1800+ they are pretty much only asking for basic rotation dps

In runs I expect to see at least 1k obviously lower if the fight is extremely mechanic oreitatated or if you are new.

The only way you can fall below that number is:
A you're pretty much Netflix playing, pressing a button every 5 seconds or something
B having serious rotation problems I.e pressing 3 2 1 instead of 1 2 3
C dieing to mechanics

Last night I queued for Alex nm to cap lore

I did 4 runs, in each run only 1-2 dps above 1k (including myself) the rest 800-300

500-600 dps by the way is what we could do at level 50....

A blm 1 run did 297, that's just...trash got his drop too

[Deathgiver]

When a parser user mentions bad dps, they are no way saying oh shit man you should be doing 1800+ they are pretty much only asking for basic rotation dps

In runs I expect to see at least 1k obviously lower if the fight is extremely mechanic oreitatated or if you are new.

The only way you can fall below that number is:
A you're pretty much Netflix playing, pressing a button every 5 seconds or something
B having serious rotation problems I.e pressing 3 2 1 instead of 1 2 3
C dieing to mechanics

So much this.

A great example of why people could use the feedback is the Sawtooth fight in VA; Attacking the tree has no positional requirements, you can dodge by strafing around the tree, and aside from 1 cast there's 0 downtime. A mnk, at minimum iLVL, just alternating their rear and flank combos and making sure they're facing the tree all the time can do just shy of 900 dps. That's with no oGCD usage and no party buffs being applied. If you head over to fflogs and look at that fight, roughly a third of mnks participating aren't even doing that, and almost every 1 of the mnks below that threashhold were well above the minimum ilvl judging by the average damage per attack. Basically points to the fact that a 3rd of the playerbase can't even be arsed to press 123456 over and over again in the right order at the right time. In game parser would help to identify that you're having issues, and give you an idea of where you should be at. It's not going to fix the issue, but at least the player would know that there is something that needs fixing.