Drk opener as mt

[Yuni_Queen]

Come to think of it, he also ignored everyone who told him he was wrong and called them all elitists, just like you are now. I'm sensing a pattern here.

The main reason to do not look into DPS section lol.
I am literally scared about storms i may find there.
Too many dps i quess lol

[Yuni_Queen]

...One Too many tanks here i quess lol *

[MagiusNecros]

I run dungeons almost exclusively on my SCH on my main and PLD on my alt these days. I literally never press a heal button on any boss in any level 60 dungeon at i213 and my tanks never come close to death. No matter how bad your healer is, there's no excuse for a tank death in a boss fight.

Mmmkay gonna make them work for that commendation then.

It's just since I did that Vault run for the DRK relic we had a DRG that got chained to the healer on last boss and the healer knew what to do but the DRG kept running to the Healer(decent WHM actually) and they both got cooked. If we didn't have a Summoner with us to res the healer we would have had a wipe. Actually had to throw out a Living Dead for that fight. And in Dungeons if I use LD it's because someone fucked up since I generally never have to use it.

[HoodRat]

TL;DR:
Don't pull with plunge. It doesn't give enough enmity to warrant it's use solely for enmity purposes, it can hinder moving the boss if that's required, and it's a dps loss for you and any melee dps in the group.

[Yuni_Queen]

And in Dungeons if I use LD it's because someone fucked up since I generally never have to use it.

Don't get down because of that. There is little room for Living Dead at all. It is not even a good panic button, since you would do best to pair it up with Convalesnce.
In dungeons i am not using Living Dead, unless i want to kill a dying mob so next pull would be one mob less.
In raids it is mostly No-other-cooldowns-to-pop when tank buster is incoming, or when your HP is so low, that you won't survive even with 30% mitigation.

Thou i highly reccomend TeamSpeak or any form of verbal communication, cause LD can be used very efficiently actually, it is just very uncomfortable.

[JackFross]

Mmmkay gonna make them work for that commendation then.

It's just since I did that Vault run for the DRK relic we had a DRG that got chained to the healer on last boss and the healer knew what to do but the DRG kept running to the Healer(decent WHM actually) and they both got cooked. If we didn't have a Summoner with us to res the healer we would have had a wipe. Actually had to throw out a Living Dead for that fight. And in Dungeons if I use LD it's because someone fucked up since I generally never have to use it.

In fairness, there are some bosses that I always do in tank stance. Notable inclusions in that would be mostly every Primal when I'm the main tank (Thordan, Sephirot, etc) and - oddly enough - the boss you just referenced. That boss in the Vault is the most heavy-hitting (raid-wide) boss in Heavensward, outside of endgame trials and raids. He craps damage left and right and has actual, serious mechanics to watch out for. It's too dangerous, imo, to fight it with less mitigation. I'll swap to Sword Oath or drop Grit rarely, with a cooldown in addition (or obviously during the add phase because derpderp), but yeah.

Dungeon bosses in general aren't hard to heal, but there are a handful of noteworthy exceptions to the rule (namely: final boss of Fractal Continuum, final boss of The Vault, second boss of Antitower if the healer messes up and runs to the opposite side of you and the dps don't do their job :0) but they're few and far between and a good healer won't notice the difference between ShO/SwO, Grit/No-Grit, and Def/Del.


That said - I still always pull every boss in Grit for that initial hate lead, starting with a Power Slash. The only time I deviate is if my DPS are both doing less than me on bosses in a dungeon, since then I won't need Grit for hate at all and need to carry a bit harder than usual. It's personal preference and comfort level, whether you pull with or without Grit, I just feel Grit pulls are safer in most situations, and there's very little reason to remain in Grit for long, as healing in dungeons is never intensive enough to make the difference noticeable. The difference is Grit = no heals (occasional Regens), no Grit = 1 Adlo/Cure 1 replaces 1 Broil/Stone 3 here and there at worst. The extra tank dps easily outweighs that minor loss.

[Hierro]

The way I tend to pull as DRK is:
Unmend>[LB]>HS>SS>PS>[DA+drop Grit]>HS>[BW>CaS]>SS>[DP>DA]>SE>[PL]>S>[SE]>HS>[LB>DA]>SS>SE
Salted can probably be dropped pre-pull, but losing the initial shot of Grit damage for a delayed non-Grit SE feels better to me. After that SE, you can slap Grit back on if you feel you need more hate - it's very unlikely you'll lose hate through those two combos, and I generally will just use a PS either in place of the SE there (usually keeping the DA because BW is up and if I need it, I want the (marginally) bigger lead) or as he next combo not shown.

Personally, I start with unmend and plunge, followed by scourge. Since my aggro combo is one GCD delayed compared to yours due to scourge, plunge's extra damage helps me keep aggro for that moment. Now, pulling with plunge isn't the worst thing ever. If it were to be used for a pull, well, that's only 20% damage loss on ONE oGCD. The difference between usage is also 15 seconds, if we're comparing your proposal and what everyone else does, and that's not a terribly huge deal breaker. Remember, we're no longer in the age of tight and strict dps checks.

I love DPSing as a tank, I sympathize and empathize with the idea of pushing out as much as you can, and advocate it. But it feels like splitting hairs, having this oGCD here or there. Let's not forget, it's one opener, not a whole fight of rotations. I feel it helps add to the aggro generated at the start, which to me translates to more time being afford out of tank stance and therefore more DPS. It isn't like I'm pushing for a crappy opener either, after all, I'm benefiting from scourge ticks for half a duration before you use yours. Not to say that yours isn't well thought through, but to say what I'm saying isn't bad either.

[Sarcatica]

Personally, I start with unmend and plunge, followed by scourge. Since my aggro combo is one GCD delayed compared to yours due to scourge, plunge's extra damage helps me keep aggro for that moment. Now, pulling with plunge isn't the worst thing ever. If it were to be used for a pull, well, that's only 20% damage loss on ONE oGCD.

I love DPSing as a tank, I sympathize and empathize with the idea of pushing out as much as you can, and advocate it. But it feels like splitting hairs, having this oGCD here or there. Let's not forget, it's one opener, not a whole fight of rotations. I feel it helps add to the aggro generated at the start, which to me translates to more time being afford out of tank stance and therefore more DPS. It isn't like I'm pushing for a crappy opener either, after all, I'm benefiting from scourge ticks for half a duration before you use yours. Not to say that yours isn't well thought through, but to say what I'm saying isn't bad either.

Of course whatever opener is not THAT bad, but it's almost pathetic to rely on something that doesn't have enmity bonus, and on top of that claiming it "helps" which 200pot is probably not going to be, making it better to use to DPS for the most part.
Of course, your opener is not THAT bad, but to claim that a skill that doesn't give enmity bonus "helpful" to maintain aggro is quite a long shot. Happy now? lmao.

People like to start Power Slash combo in Grit, so that you don't have issue with pushing for DPS without having to use extra Power Slashes. If you use Unmend > Plunge > Scourge first, that means you are losing out -20% from both Plunge and Scourge (-20% is 400pot from 500pot, you bet that it's a lot). And people just seem to keep forgetting or don't want to mention about the animation lock? It feels terrible to get locked from using skills, that's is what you get from using Plunge into whatever skills next.

If you think using Scourge early is better with the -20%, you only take 7.5sec to do PS combo, Grit off and Scourge away all you want. Remember that if you apply Scourge early during Grit uptime, it's very awkward for you to reapply it when you don't have Grit up.

If you are able to see the data individually in FFlogs, do see what the top DRKs have been doing. There are rarely cases where you want to use Plunge on pull or saving it for mechanics.

[Hierro]

I love how you decided to go back and carefully reword from "pathetic" to "quite a long shot." Props to you~

[Sarcatica]

I love how you decided to go back and carefully reword from "pathetic" to "quite a long shot." Props to you~

Blame SE's 1k char limit. Forgot to copy the whole thing before I edited further.

Note: If anyone has better idea to best DRK opener as MT, it's way better if you can prove it with something tangible and not just theory. Not nitpicking about what I "rephrase" because I forgot and was lazy to edit it further.