This game needs better DPS feedback

[WinterLuna]

Well... The best way to know your group is doing well in a dungeon is.. The overall time(since saved time means farm tokens/lores faster)

Less than 12min to clear expert = great. Less than 15 min good. Less than 20 average. More than 20 slow.

I'm starting to believe everyone is pretending that any methods of checking to see if you are underperforming don't exist, because people inevitably want a parser and will argue anything against it.

[Ghishlain]

I'm starting to believe everyone is pretending that any methods of checking to see if you are underperforming don't exist, because people inevitably want a parser and will argue anything against it.

I'd argue any method used to gauge someone's DPS outside of a parser is unreliable due to a myriad of circumstances and issues. To take the the Enmity Meter example used earlier, it can show the divide between a underwhelming terrible DPS and an overwhelmingly good DPS but not really useful for any shade of grey in between due to abilities like Quelling Strikes, Elusive Jump, Shadewalker, etc.

[WinterLuna]

To take the the Enmity Meter example used earlier, it can show the divide between a underwhelming terrible DPS and an overwhelmingly good DPS but not really useful for any shade of grey in between due to abilities like Quelling Strikes, Elusive Jump, Shadewalker, etc.

It's obviously not exact but I was using that example in response to the OP. She was talking about players in level 60 duty finder. This isn't a place where people often use enmity reducing skills. My point was that if a player really is that bad, it would show in the aggro table.

We had a monk in our FC who was constantly number 8 on the aggro table. We asked him nicely about his rotation, and he didn't have Fists of Fire on his hotbar, nor was he doing his rotation correctly.

I'm not saying the aggro table replaces a parser. I'm saying it doesn't take a parser to recognise if you are performing badly.

Edit: the OP was talking about players who "don't know how to play." Most people are responding as though she was talking about half decent players who want to improve. My responses are directed towards the fact she is talking about bad players, not the "grey area."

[Alexftw]

It's easy to tell if someone is bellow average. For tanks: Check gear, use enimity lowering skills. If his gear is within 10 ilvls of yours and can't keep agro with you lowering enimity then he's bad. Check pulls - if the healer can always keep him healed and you have two aoe classes yet he doesn't pull over 2 mobs, he's bad or being lazy.

For healers: if he is well geared and can't keep tank alive in 4- mobs pulls and can't dps during bosses then he's either bad or being lazy.

For dps: if they can't do mechanisms and stuff isnt dying in time(assuming tank and healer are normal) then both are bad or one is terrible and other bellow average. (1 good dps is enough to compensate another with 600- dps). If they don't dodge stuff that has to be dodged then they're bad or being lazy.


As for spotting bad players: if they're in an English party and can only swear French.. 99.1% bad players.(every time I had a player swearing in French in df he happened to be terrible at his role somehow, still I've met decent French players aswell, except they didn't swear lol).

[Ghishlain]

It's obviously not exact but I was using that example in response to the OP. She was talking about players in level 60 duty finder. This isn't a place where people often use enmity reducing skills. My point was that if a player really is that bad, it would show in the aggro table.

We had a monk in our FC who was constantly number 8 on the aggro table. We asked him nicely about his rotation, and he didn't have Fists of Fire on his hotbar, nor was he doing his rotation correctly.

I'm not saying the aggro table replaces a parser. I'm saying it doesn't take a parser to recognise if you are performing badly.

Edit: the OP was talking about players who "don't know how to play." Most people are responding as though she was talking about half decent players who want to improve. My responses are directed towards the fact she is talking about bad players, not the "grey area."

We should still encourage something thats better than the enmity metre though to provide us more feed back. If the game told me, similar to who has the highest enmity, who is dealing the most damage to this boss (doesn't necessarily have to be the raw number- just a ranking), then we can see who actually is performing and under performing.

If you saw on this ranking a WAR of equal ilvl out DPSing every single DPS in Midas, would you say all those DPS don't know how to play and performing badly? If you agree they are performing poorly, how would you detect this with the current tools? You unfortunately can't. It's can be argued this is a corner case but it happens far too frequently for my own liking.

...I still want more feed back than Enmity Meter though so I can perform better on AST. lol. (complete tangent to the whole thing)

[randysquirrel]

She was talking about players in level 60 duty finder. This isn't a place where people often use enmity reducing skills"

Then you are running with terrible or, at very least, lazy, dps.
If I don't open with quelling I will almost certainly tear hate from a boss in my opener.

This doesn't make me awesome, "hey look at me, my dps must be great cos the tank cant even hold hate!", it makes the fight annoying for everyone else, with boss running about, healer having to try and heal me and the tank, and me prob dying when manaward/wall run out