Progression: Eos+AST vs Selene+WHM

[Kelya]

I've never tried this combo but just by having Eos I think WHM/Selene wins. Eos really only gives a HOT every 1 min and a +20% healing buff every 2 min. I'm not counting Convenant as AST has Collective Unconscious and I didn't hear about any fight being a wipe without Fey Convenant (tho I might be wrong since I haven't reached A8S myself). If you're not using Fey illumination at the same time as Synastry then it's not even compensating for the burst as you will never be close to a Cure3, which is the only reason I see to want Eos vs Selene in the first place. So unless a Synastry + Fey illumination are needed at the same time, you'd better take Selene which synergizes well with the low GCD of AST.

[FoxyAreku]

I'm pretty adamant about Eos being unnecessary. Haven't ever encountered a fight where I had to use her through all of Coil and savage when they were current (though I never did A4S).

Sorry if my thought is offtopic, but it's safe to say the most raid DPS would be astrologion+Selene and if it's in question you should just do that.

[Yhisa]

Actually EoS would be used if healers got split up or chamber away for a long period of time because SCH would have no HoT or healer to babysit him instead

This is a misconception of SCH they are not baby sitting the main healer, the main healers are baby sitting the SCH so he/she can just dps apart from reduce tank buster damage and the occasional shield the group SCH is just a SMN being carried by Fairy/whm/ast

As an AST or MCH i have seen many times when the main healer dies its a wipe cause SCH cannot keep up with the healing without extreamly burning himself dry out of MP, massive cooldown burning and heavy relying on pet to help heal players

Thing is SCH got it easy for them, but as soon as ur main healer dies its game over ur SCH will have a heart attack quickly trying to raise the main healer or hoping that there is a smn in group to get the main healer up.. Without the main healer SCH is nothing

[FoxyAreku]

Actually EoS would be used if healers got split up or chamber away for a long period of time because SCH would have no HoT or healer to babysit him instead

Literally not a single fight where this happens.

Yup, when a group has everything on farm AST+Selene is the clear winner. I'm mostly speaking about progression. I normally never use Eos, but this tier I've started to find a lot of situations where she's quite useful in the later fights of Midas.

I've not seen any in A5S or A6S, but if you're further than that I can't speak of it as that's as far as I've been.

[KarstenS]

I've not seen any in A5S or A6S, but if you're further than that I can't speak of it as that's as far as I've been.

Pre Nerf there were already some critical situations in A6 where the buffs of Eos helped alot. Post Nerf the raid wide damage got reduced very noticeable.

How long and far are you in A6?

[FoxyAreku]

Pre Nerf there were already some critical situations in A6 where the buffs of Eos helped alot. Post Nerf the raid wide damage got reduced very noticeable.

How long and far are you in A6?

3rd guy

Personally, I prefer Eos. The added healing abilities are really nice (fey illum + adlo + convalescence + defiance + deploy = dayum shield), whispering dawn is incredibly useful to help keep you DPSing and healing less and Fey Cov is great for reducing your teams incoming damage. That is a lot to trade for a buff that gives your team members 1 extra GCD every ~140 seconds of constant attacking. The only time I currently use Selene is vs Hummelfaust.

DPS gain is a DPS gain.
I usually run with a white mage, so Eos is just unnecessary for me. Even back in coil in heal intensive stuff like T13 I never needed her.

[Kaurie]

DPS gain is a DPS gain.
I usually run with a white mage, so Eos is just unnecessary for me. Even back in coil in heal intensive stuff like T13 I never needed her.

DPS gain is only really achieved when you have 140+ seconds of continuous battle, not obtained when things interrupt that such as jumps etc. Where if you battled for 60 seconds, you would not get an extra GCD and would simply have finished at ~59.1 seconds instead. And yes, i realize that is technically a DPS gain.

Further, increased healing output of Eos allows for you to DPS more which may very well be a larger DPS gain for your team. Having Eos use rouse + Whispering dawn may allow for both you and your WHM to DPS.

[JackFross]

To first comment on the thread - I haven't sifted through the posts because the whole first page was people bashing OP for including Eos.

Between those two combinations, I think AST+Eos would be far more raid dps gain than Selene+WHM. As long as the AST actually does DPS (a lot of ASTs I see do literally 0 DPS and just focus on heals+cards because ??????) it should balance out pretty nicely. Selene isn't nearly as effective as AST at DPS support, like... not even close. It's a 1-minute cooldown worse-than-expanded-arrow like... not very good. WHM has better dps than AST, though, but not by enough to matter imho, and the heals should be equivalent between the two options.

As an AST or MCH i have seen many times when the main healer dies its a wipe cause SCH cannot keep up with the healing without extreamly burning himself dry out of MP, massive cooldown burning and heavy relying on pet to help heal players

Gonna real talk - this is 100% dependent on the skill of the healers.

In my raid static, when our WHM goes down, we last a lot longer than when my SCH dies. In A4S, it was basically an instant wipe if the Scholar died, but the White Mage would regularly die to shit he shouldn't die to and we'd make it through to our usual progression point with no issue. Our SCH would occasionally/rarely screw up and die in the same place and almost every time we would immediately wipe.

So, I disagree? It's about how good the Healer is at picking up the slack. If you're up to the chain Sparks after hammers in A7S then absolutely if EITHER healer dies, it's a wipe unless the other healer anticipates it and prepares. SCH has just fine burst heals to compensate, it's just more effective for the SCH to be dpsing since most healing in the game does not require two healers, so it makes more sense for your shield healer to be the spot healer and the HoT healer to be the main. It's not because SCH lacks healing capability - it's because SCH's healing capability lends itself much more to spot heals than WHM's kit.

[CBellz]

I'm pretty adamant about Eos being unnecessary. Haven't ever encountered a fight where I had to use her through all of Coil and savage when they were current (though I never did A4S).

Sorry if my thought is offtopic, but it's safe to say the most raid DPS would be astrologion+Selene and if it's in question you should just do that.

Yup, when a group has everything on farm AST+Selene is the clear winner. I'm mostly speaking about progression. I normally never use Eos, but this tier I've started to find a lot of situations where she's quite useful in the later fights of Midas.

You will never be close to a Cure3, which is the only reason I see to want Eos vs Selene in the first place. So unless a Synastry + Fey illumination are needed at the same time, you'd better take Selene which synergizes well with the low GCD of AST.

This is a pretty fair point.

[Kaurie]

I'm pretty adamant about Eos being unnecessary. Haven't ever encountered a fight where I had to use her through all of Coil and savage when they were current (though I never did A4S).

Sorry if my thought is offtopic, but it's safe to say the most raid DPS would be astrologion+Selene and if it's in question you should just do that.

Personally, I prefer Eos. The added healing abilities are really nice (fey illum + adlo + convalescence + defiance + deploy = dayum shield), whispering dawn is incredibly useful to help keep you DPSing and healing less and Fey Cov is great for reducing your teams incoming damage. That is a lot to trade for a buff that gives your team members 1 extra GCD every ~140 seconds of constant attacking. The only time I currently use Selene is vs Hummelfaust.