Progression: Eos+AST vs Selene+WHM

[FoxyAreku]

Actually EoS would be used if healers got split up or chamber away for a long period of time because SCH would have no HoT or healer to babysit him instead

Literally not a single fight where this happens.

Yup, when a group has everything on farm AST+Selene is the clear winner. I'm mostly speaking about progression. I normally never use Eos, but this tier I've started to find a lot of situations where she's quite useful in the later fights of Midas.

I've not seen any in A5S or A6S, but if you're further than that I can't speak of it as that's as far as I've been.

[KarstenS]

I've not seen any in A5S or A6S, but if you're further than that I can't speak of it as that's as far as I've been.

Pre Nerf there were already some critical situations in A6 where the buffs of Eos helped alot. Post Nerf the raid wide damage got reduced very noticeable.

How long and far are you in A6?

[JackFross]

To first comment on the thread - I haven't sifted through the posts because the whole first page was people bashing OP for including Eos.

Between those two combinations, I think AST+Eos would be far more raid dps gain than Selene+WHM. As long as the AST actually does DPS (a lot of ASTs I see do literally 0 DPS and just focus on heals+cards because ??????) it should balance out pretty nicely. Selene isn't nearly as effective as AST at DPS support, like... not even close. It's a 1-minute cooldown worse-than-expanded-arrow like... not very good. WHM has better dps than AST, though, but not by enough to matter imho, and the heals should be equivalent between the two options.

As an AST or MCH i have seen many times when the main healer dies its a wipe cause SCH cannot keep up with the healing without extreamly burning himself dry out of MP, massive cooldown burning and heavy relying on pet to help heal players

Gonna real talk - this is 100% dependent on the skill of the healers.

In my raid static, when our WHM goes down, we last a lot longer than when my SCH dies. In A4S, it was basically an instant wipe if the Scholar died, but the White Mage would regularly die to shit he shouldn't die to and we'd make it through to our usual progression point with no issue. Our SCH would occasionally/rarely screw up and die in the same place and almost every time we would immediately wipe.

So, I disagree? It's about how good the Healer is at picking up the slack. If you're up to the chain Sparks after hammers in A7S then absolutely if EITHER healer dies, it's a wipe unless the other healer anticipates it and prepares. SCH has just fine burst heals to compensate, it's just more effective for the SCH to be dpsing since most healing in the game does not require two healers, so it makes more sense for your shield healer to be the spot healer and the HoT healer to be the main. It's not because SCH lacks healing capability - it's because SCH's healing capability lends itself much more to spot heals than WHM's kit.

[CBellz]

I'm pretty adamant about Eos being unnecessary. Haven't ever encountered a fight where I had to use her through all of Coil and savage when they were current (though I never did A4S).

Sorry if my thought is offtopic, but it's safe to say the most raid DPS would be astrologion+Selene and if it's in question you should just do that.

Yup, when a group has everything on farm AST+Selene is the clear winner. I'm mostly speaking about progression. I normally never use Eos, but this tier I've started to find a lot of situations where she's quite useful in the later fights of Midas.

You will never be close to a Cure3, which is the only reason I see to want Eos vs Selene in the first place. So unless a Synastry + Fey illumination are needed at the same time, you'd better take Selene which synergizes well with the low GCD of AST.

This is a pretty fair point.

[Kaurie]

I'm pretty adamant about Eos being unnecessary. Haven't ever encountered a fight where I had to use her through all of Coil and savage when they were current (though I never did A4S).

Sorry if my thought is offtopic, but it's safe to say the most raid DPS would be astrologion+Selene and if it's in question you should just do that.

Personally, I prefer Eos. The added healing abilities are really nice (fey illum + adlo + convalescence + defiance + deploy = dayum shield), whispering dawn is incredibly useful to help keep you DPSing and healing less and Fey Cov is great for reducing your teams incoming damage. That is a lot to trade for a buff that gives your team members 1 extra GCD every ~140 seconds of constant attacking. The only time I currently use Selene is vs Hummelfaust.

[Yhisa]

Both are pretty stable in progression. Selene gives the party a 50% uptime haste buff while the WHM manages burst healing. Eos gives covenant, whispering dawn, and fey illumination to the AST to bridge the cap in burst healing throughput between AST and WHM. AST handles raid utility and DPS increases through cards.

AST dont need eos to help with burst healing we dont need the fairy to even help us, there is a lot of bad player AST around who dont use there kit and fiddle around too much with there cards

AST got the highest burst healing in the game if the player uses there "KIT" correctly instead of holding it off AST also got a major HoT stacking combo which ticks for 4-5k (6-7k on tanks),

But fairy is used depending on the raid ur going up against, if there HIGH damage eos is winner or if the content is new, selene is a fairy for cleared content u have done and when u feek comfortable using her instead of eos

[Yhisa]

Triple post due to being on mobile cannot edit previous

AST + SELENE gives most raid dps due to AoE arrow and selene buff stacks plus all other cards, also with a AST/SCH combo u both can unload ur "unmissable" dots on to bosses without having to stack accurracy

Also AST/SCH u need to play like a synagist and sobatuer (ffxiii reference) buffs and debuffs if u do this it will stop out WHM/SCH dps

WHM/SCH u need to play like Medic and ravager (another ffxiii reference) where ur WHM heals, and SCH goes full dps and lend occassional helpful heals

For fairy choice... It depends on content, EoS if no mnk/high damage fights, Selene for buff/silence/AoE dispell if no bard the fairy is just situational at best but dont be 1 of these bad SCH and assume to use selene only and thing u can dps the entire fight (so many of these around)

[Kaenbyou]

I'm glad this thread was created because I was having the same doubt about fairies recently.
We're only at final boss of A6S with my static but I ended up finding Eos better in more way than Selene actually (except for Hummelfaust).
The dps it allows us healers to do while we're showered in HoT easily beats Selene's Haste.
One of the best example is during Ratflinx's Therapic Shock spam when both healers can stay in Cleric Stance with the increased HoT healing.
Add to that the fact that A5S and A6S have a lot of downtime (Boost on A5S, 2nd boss of A6S add phase,...), that forces you to delay a lot of Fey Wind to be effective while Eos can be useful at every moment of the fight.
For me, looking at the way the current raid are designed, Eos wins this patch.
But I really hope they can find a way to make Selene more useful, because its biggest weak point in raid is its kit.
You only use one useful skill raid with Selene, and it's Fey Wind. Fey Caress is really situational and doesn't work on a lot of debuff in raid and the silence is really unreliable and may only be useful on A6S 1st boss if your designed silencer is dead.
In fact, for me, they shouldn't make Selene have embrace and replace it by something doing damage or boosting damage to fully go into Eos-> Heal, Selene-> Damage type of fairies, but that's a discussion for another thread.

[Tashim]

I wouldn't casually dismiss Fey Covenant. its extremely powerful for mitigating magic damage, in a way that stacks with both virus, and Sacred Soil. Personally, I find Eos' defensive nature to vastly outstrip the minor dps gain afforded by Selene. If content is on farm, thats another story, but when you're pushing progression, and healers have to, you know, heal... Eos is vastly better than Selene at healing.

Using Eos well takes more skill than selene. With the purple pixie, all you usually have to do is decide when to best use her speed. Sometimes its best to wait a little bit on it to have it line up with other factors. Eos, on the other hand, requires juggling all of her abilities, particularly as Fey Illumination affects the usefulness of deployment tactics, your healing partner's throughput, in addition to the fairy's Whispering Dawn. As to not waste the benefits, they should be offset some, but using that properly requires you to predict at least 20s ahead in a fight.

[Llynd]

Healers have to heal... It's not as simple as that. Sch have to dps and only support at some point by shielding /healing a bit. Reach the dps needed for midas is quite a thing, and even if your team is good, unless you go there with a great ilvl, you'll need the off healer dps. And selene's buff is quite important to this point.
( but i agree with you that eos got way better skills than Selene....)