Recover HP/MP while standing still, out of battle, and enmity zeroed

[Preypacer]

A bad supporting argument? Why, because it's not something you agree with?

lol isn't that always the case with Neptune?

Every one of his threads looks the same in that regard.

1. Neptune makes assertion, presuming to speak for others (even while others don't seem to agree with him)
2. Neptune receives various responses, addressing or otherwise refuting his assertion
3. Neptune tells people to "take off their blinders", "follow the argument" or some other condescending remark.

I don't think I've ever seen Neptune not complaining about something. I don't think I've ever seen Neptune concede that he's incorrect or perhaps approaching an issue from the wrong direction. I don't think I've ever seen Neptune not being an arrogant, condescending prick to anyone who disagrees with him, however politely they do so.

In Neptune's world, he's right and you either agree with him or you're wrong. Period.

Why people even entertain any kind of discussion with the guy I have no idea. It's like talking to a brick wall. Actually no. Brick walls at least have the class to not insult you for "daring" to disagree with what they say or voicing an opposing point-of-view.

Look around you, many players have adapted to the changes just fine.

People have been proving his assertions wrong left and right for months now. It never makes a difference. He simply dismisses it.

He's "right" and everyone who disagrees is wrong and "needs to take their blinders off".

The man is the epitome of self-righteous arrogance. His mentality seems to be "Others are entitled to their petty little insignificant opinions. But everyone is obligated to mine. Because I'm always right."

[MeowyWowie]

I agree, Preypacer.

His last two posts also just confirmed that he cares only about himself and not other players as he so claims.

[Neptune]

Wait, what?

Anyone else see what's wrong with this picture? lol

You haven't played Demon's Souls. In Demon's Souls, Cure is a very rarely used spell. You are not responsible for your team mate's health. Everyone has their own potions to use, but it's not something you use with frequency. You only use it when you screw up. More MMOs should be like that gameplay I think.

lol isn't that always the case with Neptune?

People have been proving his assertions wrong left and right for months now. It never makes a difference. He simply dismisses it.

He's "right" and everyone who disagrees is wrong and "needs to take their blinders off".

It's easy to talk about somebody when you lack the ability to step into the discussion or the depth to appreciate the situation at hand. If I've ever said anything "wrong" please demonstrate where I "dismissed" it. I don't expect you to reply since you are going to have a hard time coming up with facts. Do you have anything else to add or are you just upset that I'm objecting to an added timesink to the game?

I agree, Preypacer.

His last two posts also just confirmed that he cares only about himself and not other players as he so claims.

How's that? I'm a soloer because when I level I do so casually. So I don't appreciate the timesink.

However it is you that shows no regard for other classes since you have posted over and over that people shouldn't support an inexperienced or normally-ranked tank, or support their preferred linkshells, and that any trouble they experience due to lacking game design is their fault. Why don't you support the idea of the dev team making it's player's lives easier?

Actually, after thinking about it a second I think I see your point. You don't think I care about NoctisUmbra or you, and actually I don't care for your posts since you have not showed compassion for the weak. I don't care for your actions but I accept you as a poster, and I wish you opened your mind to issues you don't normally consider. As for Noctis, I think he and I have been having a nice discussion.

[MeowyWowie]

You haven't played Demon's Souls. In Demon's Souls, Cure is a very rarely used spell. You are not responsible for your team mate's health. Everyone has their own potions to use, but it's not something you use with frequency. You only use it when you screw up. More MMOs should be like that gameplay I think.

How's that? I'm a soloer because when I level I do so casually. So I don't appreciate the timesink.

However it is you that shows no regard for other classes since you have posted over and over that people shouldn't support an inexperienced or normally-ranked tank, or support their preferred linkshells, and that any trouble they experience due to lacking game design is their fault. Why don't you support the idea of the dev team making it's player's lives easier?

Where did I say that people shouldn't support other players?? In fact, I'm pretty sure I said the opposite. I'd like to see people work together forming their own strategies and not be tied down to the ones that are already proven to work.

And yes, you do only think about yourself. Saying that you're against using ethers as a means of MP regeneration but then saying you're totally fine with Melee using potions to heal themselves is a prime example. Anything that makes things easier for YOU. Who cares about other players, right?

[Biggs]

Yes, I'm sure everyone will adapt without thinking about where this game stands in relation to the genre, the past, and competing games.

I'd like to welcome anyone else to this thread that feels (not thinks) accepting everything to come out of SE patch notes is not to be disputed. Jesus said we will always have the poor, and I feel we will always have your lot.

No, MP costs did not turn out to be perfectly fine once people got "used" to them.

*MeowyWowie's Special Breakdown of People Getting Used To MP Costs*

-Open LS chat
- /l Darkhold run, looking for 4 Conjurers
- Party complete, 40-50% healers, 1 tank, 4 DPS
- Other classes wondering why they were left out
- Conclusion: PGL, MRD, and LNC have the best adaptation rates of all the classes!

*This concludes MeowyWowie's lesson On How To Adapt To FFXIV Patch Notes*

We accept it because the only other option (which no one on this forum seems to exercise) is to stop playing. Instead, you would rather continue playing so you feel like you have a right to complain. The sense of entitlement people have developed with this game over the past year is astounding. Post your response about how you dislike this particular feature and move on. But don't talk shit about people that don't have a problem with something that you do. Just because we don't feel like crying over every little feature they impliment that we may not agree with doesn't make us all a bunch of yes-men, it just means we are willing to compromise At the end of the day its SE's game, not yours. Suck it up and move on.

[NoctisUmbra]

Why thank you for your generous reply. I didn't know you were thinking that critically about the enmity system, and I think you made a few oversights which led me to think that.

I should point out that this discussion at this point is just debating the finer points of speculation which will be resolved on patch day.

-You said that getting attacked adds 0 enmity. If you look over Kaeko's testing he didn't test for that. He cast Stoneskin to specifically exclude that value, whatever it is, from showing up in his tests. With that numerical value in mind for the duration of the encounter, I think it's easier to understand the distinction the patch notes make between having no enmity and incurring enmity.
-The patch notes don't make a distinction between incurring enmity and incurred enmity: you are the one making that distinction.
-Your central point that one could be aggroed and have 0 enmity can only be reasonably thought of in one situation: that you have been aggroed and have Stoneskin up and haven't yet taken damage. What kind of a scenario is that to base an argument for useful HP/MP regeneration off of?
-It makes sense that the patch notes say reset and not stop because it's referring to the rate per second of regen.

That is why I think, even though you have explained your thoughts in detail, you are still reaching very far to think there will be in battle regen based on reading the patch notes.

I think the patch notes mention being engaged in battle because you could be idle when your party engages an enemy and still regen until you take action. Occam's Razor. But we'll see soon.

Actually, I distinctly remember him pointing out there is no gain/loss in enmity due to taking damage. Initially he used stoneskin to remove that as a variable while testing other mechanics, such as hate amount generated. Later he went on to prove that taking damage does not change your enmity value.

That being said, at this point I think we've both expressed ourselves thoroughly and is best we simply agree to disagree. Besides, in a matter of 2 days when we find out who was right we can just point and laugh then :P

PS: I really hope I don't need to write an essay to get past your condescending phase next time lol


As for a number of other posts in this thread, personally attacking anyone doesn't get you anywhere. It just reduces your credibility and chance of being taken seriously. Whoever the person in question may be.

[Renshi]

Well... still, why should you heal yourself while walking? It's like fixing your injuries while you patch your legs or arms, which in a real context is pretty disturbing.
By being still there's a chance to bring in a Recovery animation, supporting that other thread, and it feels more logical to heal while staying still, so you can patch yourself during that time.

We'll have this feature. Might be good, might be bad, only we can see it when we will be able to play (Damn me for transfering so I can't play the game at Day1!!!).

[Neptune]

Where did I say that people shouldn't support other players??

And yes, you do only think about yourself. Saying that you're against using ethers as a means of MP regeneration but then saying you're totally fine with Melee using potions to heal themselves is a prime example. Anything that makes things easier for YOU. Who cares about other players, right?

If you really believed in support for other players you would empathize with those very same players when they post here. For instance, let's say you enjoy the timesink added by standstill regen because it adds to your immersion. How about casual players that don't enjoy that timesink? Are you willing to give up defending a timesink so that potentially millions of people can be freed from a timesink and enjoy more convenience?

Obviously you didn't read my post about Demon's Souls. If I enjoy a game like Demon's Souls do you really think I want things easier? Don't think about MMOs as players doing "work" - it is about having fun. I assume you are resorting to character assassination and talking about easy mode because I have defeated your arguments and you have no remaining options.

We accept it because the only other option ....

You don't seem to realize this but these forums are here for feedback to.. change the game's direction. It's not accept or quit. It's accept, quit, or ask for a change in direction.

[COLOR="navy"]Actually, I distinctly remember him pointing out there is no gain/loss in enmity due to taking damage.

What he said was:

- Taking damage or evading attacks does not cause loss of non-decaying portion of enmity

It doesn't lead to a decrease in enmity, of course, because it's an accumulation system. So whether or not damage taken adds to enmity is yet to be determined.

PS: I really hope I don't need to write an essay to get past your condescending phase next time lol

lol.. it certainly helps

Well... still, why should you heal yourself while walking?

Well, it's true that it's more realistic to heal in a stationary position but it's also not very realistic to survive an intense beating by an Ogre. Also your character could go to the bathroom every few hours and it could take hours to get to the next camp, but instead we have conveniences to balance fun and realism. When you play an MMO for hundreds of hours I think it should be more convenient to do repetitive tasks than in a single player game.

[Cicatriz]

I see the point to not being able to regen while in battle/enmity or while casting buffs 'n stuff, but why make it so we have to stand still? That's so... not fun. Do these devs not understand the basics of gaming mechanics these days? You don't make a game fun by forcing your players to not press anything and stare at the screen. Just when I think these new devs know what they are doing, they prove that Square is full of old talent that is out of touch with next-gen (read: current-gen) gaming.

[Payadopa]

*sigh* It was only a matter of time before this thread had to pop up.

With being able to cast in passive mode I think it's quite reasonable to only allow recharging MP while standing still. Though, I admit, it could become a bit annoying for soloing. I actually hated waiting for ~5 mins to recharge to full MP in XI as a Tarutaru BLM.

But even if SE allowed to recharge MP while walking, you'd probably have too much MP (still seems a tad too easy but way better than before) and we'd be where we started before the cure change a few patches back.

Guess this is a prime example of whishes that backfire on you because (some) community members tend to be short-sighted.

For the record, I shall reserve my judgement until I see it for myself (Though, I like the changes).