Recover HP/MP while standing still, out of battle, and enmity zeroed

[Neptune]

You're saying that 4-5 healers was determined within hours of people getting there. This video was uploaded 3 days after the patch went live. It shows three healers
Not bashing the guys that made this video, but if they can take 3 healers in and heal not only the tank but also the DPS, with only one piece of dungeon gear among them (from what I can tell), without even doing everything they can to manage MP, then I have to wonder wth people were doing with 5 mages standing there. . .

It's true that people were doing runs with 5 healers by default right after Darkhold hit the street. If you want to dispute that we can go digging around until we can prove it. Anyway, you seem to still be not getting past the idea that "if it can be done with less healers Neptune's point is invalid". At this point in the discussion I'm wondering if you even know what point I was trying to make when we started this discussion.

Reading into your posts, you seem to be saying that it's not the dev team's fault that players got jacked by the rise in MP costs. You are positing that it's a bunch of bad player's fault by not doing MP management, being willing to challenge themselves, etc. I think I already demonstrated that this is only partly true:

DEV TEAM => GAME DESIGN => COMMUNITY => PLAYERS

You haven't gotten past the level of community in your thinking. You need to go up a level to game design and look at it from there. Your argument is true that it had an affect on players, but it is not the whole truth.

There is an EASY solution.

Mana regen whilst stationary - 100% (+10 for every 10 seconds)
Mana regen out of battle (whilst moving) - 80%
Mana regen during battle - 5%

I know, why things have to be black and white with this team I'll never know. Like the emote list being banished from the gamepad - huh?? Can it not be a config option?

Man... Guys, chill out and discover new strategies for your battles, that's what the Dev team would see us to do, since it's completely possible to do Dzemael Darkhold as it is now. Just understand better your class, plan better strategies, and you'll see that HP/MP regen problem will be no more =)

I just want to point out Renshi that the discussion of battle strategy is about a sub point in this thread, not a main topic of discussion. These strategies are all old news. Here is a diagram of what happened in this thread:

Objection to change in regen rates
-Argument against objecting to patch notes by using MP costs as an example
--Discussion of MP costs on strategy to support or refute it's validity to refute using MP costs as an example of what happens when you "adapt" to patch notes or object to the changes

Yes thats true, SE have always preferred that players fix their lack of game design, Ninja in FF11 for example.

lol. This made me laugh so hard earlier.

Paople ask SE to give alchemists a more relevant role in the economy and then refuse to even think about the possibility to buy Ethers for normal party play.

To me ethers shouldn't go beyond an emergency situation. Like when you are out of MP and have to cast one more cure3 or Rebirth. Needing to go through stacks of ethers per hour isn't my idea of a good use of ethers.

I'm sure it will make sense once we try it out.

Why drink the kool-aid? It's not patch day so why not discuss the patch notes? If you really can analyze this situation and explain how it will "make sense" please share with me your awe-inspiring vision of standing still between battles.

Completely agree with this.
Couldn't stand the fact that my old LS weren't even willing to try out new strategies and instead just decided to go with what other people showed worked.

I'm glad it's your old ls now.

Unlikely. If featherfoot gave more than maybe 20-30　MP, it would be a mage exclusive skill. It's only intended to cover the use of the two advanced guild attacks, which cost 10 and 20 MP, respectively. LOL @ Featherfoot being the new "refresh".

lol, this made me laugh too. I don't have Pugilist ranked and don't really care to, but if it really is a good ability to have I'll go get it. That doesn't stop it from being a retarded proposition for being a good mage.

After reading your responses Neptune I determined the best course of action in this case would be to explain in greater detail how the current enmity system works as well as previous uses of the term "incurring enmity" by SE to reach a conclusion found in evidence of how regen will work after 1.19.

Enmity System

A valuable member of the FFXIV community did some extensive testing on the enmity system introduced in patch 1.18. Before I get into a simple explanation, I encourage you to peruse the following two links:

Explanation of Testing Procedure

Chart of Enmity Values

When a party is engaged in battle, each party member has a numerical enmity value equivalent to 0+ per claimed enemy. Every 1 point of damage done directly results in 1 point of enmity gained. Any 1 point of HP healed directly results in 0.75 points of enmity gained. Furthermore, other non-violent skills have static values of enmity gain. Traits such as Intimidate and Out of Sight provide +10% and -10% to all enmity gains respectively.

Essentially, a player's enmity is described most accurately as a numeric value that increases through the actions of that player. Further testing also shows that enmity neither gradually decreases over time, nor gradually increases over time.

Given that information, it is quite easy to see the difference between incurring enmity and having incured enmity:

• By performing an action that grants enmity to the user, one is incurring enmity.
• By remaining still despite having performed action earlier in the engagement, one has incurred enmity, however their enmity value has not since changed.

With a very straightforward, cumulative enmity system such as this it is not so difficult to imagine an HP/MP regen system that kicks into effect after a certain period of time of having a constant enmity value, and stops once a player's enmity value increases. Such a system would allow for a mage casting in passive mode to constantly be regenerating HP and MP by waiting between casts.

Previous Uses of the Term Incurring Enmity





The bolded areas in the above quotes include the term incurring emity being used in the same tense.

In the case of the skill, Stealth, it is quite clear that incurring enmity is referring to getting aggro. If you already have the attention of a mob you cannot activate Stealth. With what we know about the enmity system, gaining aggro from a mob does not give you any numerical enmity. If another player was to come by and do exactly 1 damage on the enemy that has aggroed you, they would gain the enemy's attention and have hate on themselves henceforth.

This is important, because it points out that one can have an enmity value of 0, yet be in a state of incurring enmity.

The same conclusion can be reached by the information given by the information pertaining to the Chocobo Whistle.

With that manner of a definition, things get even more interesting. This implies that incurring enmity isn't necessarily based directly on your numerical enmity value, but rather the state of having the enemy's attention. When applied to the description of the changes to how one regenerates HP/MP it can be concluded that HP/MP regen only does not occur when the mage in a passive stance has a blinking red icon (has the mob's attention/hate), provided they are not at that point using an action.



Furthermore, provided how performing an action is already explicitly given as something that resets HP/MP regen (note the use of reset instead of cease/stop) it would be redundant to suggest they mean to say gaining points of enmity will reset your regen value. Therefore, personally I am leaning towards HP/MP regen being active at all times between actions by a mage in passive mode so long as the mage is not blinking red.

I hope with that wall of text I was able to explain my reasoning effectively, and at least allow you to see the viable probability that mages very well may be regenerating MP quite often during party battle content.

Why thank you for your generous reply. I didn't know you were thinking that critically about the enmity system, and I think you made a few oversights which led me to think that.

I should point out that this discussion at this point is just debating the finer points of speculation which will be resolved on patch day.

-You said that getting attacked adds 0 enmity. If you look over Kaeko's testing he didn't test for that. He cast Stoneskin to specifically exclude that value, whatever it is, from showing up in his tests. With that numerical value in mind for the duration of the encounter, I think it's easier to understand the distinction the patch notes make between having no enmity and incurring enmity.
-The patch notes don't make a distinction between incurring enmity and incurred enmity: you are the one making that distinction.
-Your central point that one could be aggroed and have 0 enmity can only be reasonably thought of in one situation: that you have been aggroed and have Stoneskin up and haven't yet taken damage. What kind of a scenario is that to base an argument for useful HP/MP regeneration off of?
-It makes sense that the patch notes say reset and not stop because it's referring to the rate per second of regen.

That is why I think, even though you have explained your thoughts in detail, you are still reaching very far to think there will be in battle regen based on reading the patch notes.

I think the patch notes mention being engaged in battle because you could be idle when your party engages an enemy and still regen until you take action. Occam's Razor. But we'll see soon.