Repair NPCs in Dungeons

[Suirieko]

Also, Adire, what I don't like is that you're using a disability for why you need help. There's a lot of people that have memory issues, and they overcame with with their own personal methods, without having any extra help.

[LunarEmerald]

I feel you should be punished for forgetting to repair. You can't expect the game to always hold your hand.

[Suirieko]

"I want them to overcharge because of spite, not because of an actual reason."

Because no merchants and mender in their right mind would go to somewhere very dangerous just for you. Also, remember that a lot of dungeons have guards that prevent people from going in.

for example, Haukke Manor hard mode, they see a wood wailer being captured and corrupted into a succubus or demons.

Mender: "... Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope! Going back to fuckthatdania!" *runs away!*


I honestly can't tell how far I can respect you on this. YOu make some admirable points, but when an equally valid point appears, you are quickly shutting down.

"One makes more sense than the other" how? Right now, dungouns are programmed to prevent trading and melding. Effectively, your suggestion, which you argued would be a 'potential programming nightmare', is just as likely to be smacked down by the same logic due to the fact that you have to change the very nature in which the game works while in dungouns (ability to trade/meld/and addition to repair being removed.)

There's a LOT of dungeons out there that's already been made. The first step is creating NPC for every single one of these old dungeons, and how they're going to do about it. Remember, lore wise, for half of these dungeons "one does not simply walk into it." Examples being, Pharos Sirius hard mode, The Aery, etc. SE needs to be able to explain that as well.

My main point is, I feel that this is unnecessary when it's already easy enough to get your stuff repaired through multiple means. I'd rather SE put more focus on more urgent issues than this.

Why does it make more sense for players to repair other gears than plop menders into dungeons? Because many players are also accomplished craftsperson, and know how to repair stuff, and would be more than happy to help you.

Yes, dungeons are programmed to prevent trading (obviously for good reasons) and melding (for meh reason, now that we can meld regardless of classes), however, we can still repair our own gears (if you leveled enough crafts to 50). In fact, I can even repair my stuff in the middle of battle (and I've done this far too many times lol). So why not at least give us ability to repair other player's gears in dungeon.

It's a more sensible fix than menders in dungeons, and they don't have to edit every past dungeons to do so.

[Andrea]

Honestly if they do add merchants I believe they should charge more than the ones outside dungeons.

Even as far as double or triple the cost the other ones ask for.

[Adire]

I think I'm just going to call it.

I have yet to see a convincing reason for why we shouldn't have this. All I'm getting is "you're just lazy", it would break the lore (despite there being far more ludicrous things already in the game), and it would break crafting, repeated over and over again, and people being patronizing. I'm only getting more and more annoyed, it's clear the forums will have none of this suggestion (can't say I'm surprised), so I don't see a reason for me to continue posting in this thread.

As far as I'm concerned, when lore is used as a reason to deprive players of harmless convenience, lore may have a problem. And I'm not convinced the lore actually forbids merchants being in dungeons, especially with some of the other things going on in this game. It was not uncommon to see merchants even in real life travel to dangerous areas with armed guards in order to make a profit, so I can't buy this lore reason.

When crafting is only viable because it doesn't have to suffer from a COMBAT detriment that COMBAT players have to suffer, crafting may have a problem.

We will never agree apparently, so I will take my leave from this "discussion" and refrain from suggesting anything on these forums in the future.

[Fyce]

-snip-

Lore isn't the only reason. This is n MMORPG. There's RPG in it, which means Role Playing Game.
I'm not asking you to roleplay everything you do, but to respect some gameplay aspects which forces you to have that line of thinking: "I am the Warrior of Light, and I am about to enter some dangerous place. I should make sure that I'm ready."

You may not realize it, but quite a lot of people actually like this little ritual of preparing everything before entering a dungeon. You check your food, your potions, you manage your inventory to have spare room... and your equipement before hitting that button.

Everytime you ask for something which makes that preparation more and more irrelevant, you take some of that roleplaying element away.
Some changes will help the overall quality of life you have while playing that game, but some will actually hurt its fundamentals. NPC Repair in dungeon is one of the latter category.

Edit: This is also an answer for OP.

I have yet to see a convincing reason for why we shouldn't have this.

No, you just don't want to see them.
You want something you see fit in this game, others disagree and don't think it'd fit and/or have a detrimental aspect to it superior to the benefits it'd bring.
Their negative opinions on it are as valid as the reason you want it to happen. It's mostly subjective, even if you think it'd be an objective good thing for everyone, it's not.

[Jijifli]

Oh yes, way more con's when you're incredibly bias. LEt's take a look at a more objective view.



"Loss of DoH Perk" is completrely inaccurate, take that one out. It's not a loss to their perk. They still get the perk of being able to do it anywhere, cheaper, at any time (Even in combat), and at a higher percentage than those without..


"Story Breaking" as I already pointed out, this isn't the case at all. There's plenty of cases where it could make plenty of sense. Using NPC's, it can be used to build lore, rather than take away from it.

"Requires as much walking as to a normal NPC", except for the fact that it's very possible to be out in the field questing when you get your duty pop. Or it might just be that you die too much in a duty (It happens, some of us don't give up on two deaths), or it might just be that you entered at 11% and didn't check. Happens when you're doing questing every day.

"Promotes Lazyness" I can counter this by saying that not adding it promotes underperforming if your gear breaks and you're performing at 50% of your potential.

"Promotes not checking gear" Probably the only point that holds weight, though it's moreso about giving a contingency in the case that someone forgets.

"Promotes more DoH killing ideas in the future" is just a simple slippery sloap arguement. I could argue that it promotes better QoL improvements in the future.

Okay, let's go down the list.

Anyone will be able to repair anywhere with this. Your gear broke out in the world? Queue solo into a dungeon, repair, leave. Not even a penalty. And they can't hide it behind monsters, because not only will people just do lower ones, but then you'll get the, "Why over there my gear was 0% on entry" requests. Therefor, perk removed. Not only that, it's cheap to repair anyways. The only perk that stays is over 100%, but even then why have it up so high if you can just repair at any time by just using DF?

If you want to tell me why that guard is standing there to repair your gear completely randomly in the dungeon instead of helping you out doesn't raise any eyebrows, I'd love to hear it.

Two deaths barely hits your gear. If you're doing from fully repaired to broken in 2 deaths, I want to know what you're doing because clearly it's not the deaths. I don't have DoH to repair. I can take 20+ deaths without breaking my accessories, forget armor.

If you're going to say that underperforming if not is the reason, then they weren't going to perform up anyways. Obviously, they can't just press a key to see their equipment.

My point of gear checking is I've had people go in with gear not knowing they had certain things on (Like a roleplay set.) It just slows things down. Hell, even I managed to go in with Ilvl 90 daggers instead of 210 on NIN on expert and nobody even noticed until we ended because stuff still died super fast.

How does it promote QoL? "Oh now anyone can repair anywhere now lol." There are people saying we shouldn't need DoH for any melding. I've even seen people claim we shouldn't need someone to craft the new gear to get it, and that we should just be rewarded it. With every single thing you remove that DoH has as a good advantage, it becomes less popular. In fact, this will promote more perks being removed. If this passed and the melding didn't, then there'd be complaints until it happened. Then if that passed, why do we have to have them craft it? Before you know it, DoH is a joke in every way.

But if you REALLY want me to put more cons, then here. Horrible groups don't break after someone never repaired. gear will be fixed, so they could put effort (unlikely) to doing what they need to do correctly. You won't need to level DoH to repair items.

And repeat on this con. It hurts DoH. There is no but on it. It. Hurts. DoH.

I think I'm just going to call it.

I have yet to see a convincing reason for why we shouldn't have this. All I'm getting is "you're just lazy", it would break the lore (despite there being far more ludicrous things already in the game), and it would break crafting, repeated over and over again, and people being patronizing. I'm only getting more and more annoyed, it's clear the forums will have none of this suggestion (can't say I'm surprised), so I don't see a reason for me to continue posting in this thread.

As far as I'm concerned, when lore is used as a reason to deprive players of harmless convenience, lore may have a problem. And I'm not convinced the lore actually forbids merchants being in dungeons, especially with some of the other things going on in this game. It was not uncommon to see merchants even in real life travel to dangerous areas with armed guards in order to make a profit, so I can't buy this lore reason.

When crafting is only viable because it doesn't have to suffer from a COMBAT detriment that COMBAT players have to suffer, crafting may have a problem.

We will never agree apparently, so I will take my leave from this "discussion" and refrain from suggesting anything on these forums in the future.

Maybe those points keep being thrown at you because they're legit problems? You should be able to keep an eye on your gear as someone that does COMBAT as your preferred way. The point is that combat players and DoH players work together. You can supply the items, and they can make it. They can repair it. They can fix it and make you stronger. Why should they lose benefit because you don't want to literally press the c key to see your gear is breaking and that maybe you should go talk to a repair guy.

If you're damaging full to queue pop, you're doing something wrong. So wrong in fact, that I think you wouldn't be much help in the dungeon anyways.

[Kosmos992k]

Maybe you should have done a triple take, since I haven't even insinuated that I'm "too important" to repair outside dungeons. I've said many times now that I forget sometimes as I am a flawed, human being. If we're going to insult people just to insult people without any foundation though, I'm not going to respond to you anymore.

Actually, yeah your original post and this entire concept rests on you, specifically, wanting all dungeons in the game changed for your convenience. You are ignoring all points about self repair and how this takes away one perk exclusive to DoH.You ignore the obvious logical difficulties with some random repair NPC showing up in a dungeon, a dangerous place that only we adventurers dare enter. So yeah, you are implying that all this needs to be ignored for your convenience because you can't remember the check your gear.

Except, I don't buy that "I can't remember" thing at all, I have severe ADD, I get distracted by just about anything that happens when I try to concentrate, a co-worker once called it butterfly syndrome.... Even so, I remember to repair because every time I complete a dungeon or trial, I repair. Every time I see a mender, I repair. Take responsibility for yourself rather than demanding that your needs are put ahead of others - which by the way totally implies/suggests you consider yourself too important to change your habits to cope with the situation, and want SE to take that responsibility instead.

So, yes, you apparently think you are too important to have to deal with this yourself. I'm not dismissing your failing memory, but if you can remember a dungeon layout and skill rotation, I see no reason to suppose you can't find a way of remembering to repair.

[Ilitsa]

Next up.

Retainer bells in dungeons because I forgot to equip my gear.

Next up.

Market Board in dungeon because I forgot to buy food

[Jijifli]

You realise a ludicrous thing being in the game doesn't necessarily mean it's breaking the lore right? Breaking the lore means counteracting something that's already in place, which is what the NPC's would be doing. They could literally create a new area and add a blue and pink flying giraffe and it wouldn't be breaking lore. Adding random NPC's to already implemented dungeons with their own history is completely different and would be breaking the lore that has already been introduced.

The point is that the places have already been marked as so dangerous that only the adventurers are brave (or stupid) enough to enter such a place. Have you wondered why the grand companies don't solve them themselves and instead rely on you to do it? Because they expect a slaughter in there.

And honestly, if you're going to say some traveler is there as an excuse for a repair guy, tell me why he thought sitting inside the dungeon and waiting was good profits. 99/100 times it won't be.