Please Add no bonus option for PF

[Singularity]

I would also point out that the amount of development time involved is likely to be small. Obviously I don't know the game's codebase, nor even what language it's written in, but it's simply a matter of combining two simple operations that must both (based on other things the game already does) already exist.

[WinterLuna]

Remind me again what *you* had before you got lucky enough with a group? Oh yeah.. bonus. Were you lazy, expected a carry and or had no knowledge, and if so, did this all magically change the instant you got your achievement?

I'd like to remind you I made a learning party or used Duty Finder instead of sneaking into a party specifically made for farms. Also, I'm not speaking for the whole community when I said they want a free carry, and it's ridiculous to make that assumption, but anyone new who joins a no bonus party is in the wrong here, period. End of. Done.

[Cold_Raven]

For the second time in this post, you don't need a static to clear EX primals and people who have cleared it before shouldn't be kept from farming because others are dishonest in their ability to down content.

Maybe you do need a static to clear EX primals. Perhaps you're wrong about that point.
However, you are exactly right about the problem.

The problem: Others are dishonest in their ability to down content.

Your proposed solution: Put a no-bonus block in PF. However, people who got a carry-clear (many, many people, more than will be blocked by not having a bonus) will still be able to be dishonest about their ability to down content and still get into your PF.

Therefore, your proposed solution does not fix the problem.
Therefore, your proposed solution is a waste of time.

My proposed solution: You should start a static and get to know your players and form a group of known abilities to down the content you want at the pace you want.

My solution solves the problem.
Yours does not.

The notion that I have to get my static together (or find a static if I don't have one, or don't because I haven't the time for one) every time I want to clear non-Midas savage content is rather silly.

No, it's not. In fact, it's exactly what MMO games are all about.
It's reasonable and totally expected of you.
If you're not able to use the people available to you in DF or PF to down any content at a pace you want, then form a static so you can down whatever content at a pace you want.

If "forming a static is too hard," perhaps you need to rethink the content. Maybe the content is harder than you think it is. Maybe you're just not getting along with any group of people, regardless of it being a static, PF or DF.

[Cold_Raven]

I would also point out that the amount of development time involved is likely to be small. Obviously I don't know the game's codebase, nor even what language it's written in, but it's simply a matter of combining two simple operations that must both (based on other things the game already does) already exist.

You are correct.

But just because something is quick to do, doesn't mean it's not a waste of time to implement.
We have to consider what the problem is, and figure out a solution to correct the problem.

If you just want to implement any idea that can be done quickly... you'll end up with a horrible, useless game.

This idea isn't a waste of time because it would take a long time.
It's a waste of time because the offered solution just doesn't make any significant impact to the problem.

[Odett]

snip

I've cleared every single EX primal dating back to Garuda EX all the way to Sephirot EX within its released patch window without a static, so no, I'm not wrong about that point, and I know many who have.

Yes, not all players who cleared content are good in said content, we've been talking about that for the past 5 pages or so, but someone who has cleared simply has higher odds of knowing the fight than someone who has not; that's not a hard concept to grasp. Furthermore, having a "no bonus" farm group in PF and seeing a bonus when you enter is just downright annoying and will cause friction within the group because someone is being dishonest. Many people know a fight and have reached enrage and are capable of clearing, but that's where talking to the PF leader comes in. Of course I'm going to be suspicious if you join a farm party with a bonus and fail to communicate anything, because more than likely, there is a very good reason for that, and it's often negative.

I'm a static leader, FYI, so forming a static isn't "too hard" for me. I've been in statics from BCoB in 2.0 to Midas Savage, but I'm not going to make my group run Sephirot EX countless times because I like to play all the jobs and want all the weapons.I see that as something I can do in my own time, and focus static nights around progression because we have limited play-window. On top of that, many people can't form or join statics due to their work schedule and RL situation, so yes, the notion that you need to form a static for something that doesn't require one (and the proof is there because you CAN clear EX primals in PF as well as farm when people aren't being dishonest) IS silly.

It's a waste of time because the offered solution just doesn't make any significant impact to the problem.

You have absolutely no way of knowing this because it's never been implemented. We don't know how it's going to affect things until we try it.

[RiceisNice]

@raven. Don't change the premise of the topic (what the problem is). It's not that people can't clear the content because people can't do it; the problem is that people are being dishonest about having a clear and balantly ignoring pf descriptions. People that can't clear regardless of achievements will always be a thing, but that's not what the change is for

[Andrea]

Yes, it's possible for a newcomer to not know the fight and screw up.
But even with this option it's still possible for a carried-clearer to enter and screw up your fight anyway (and they are more prevalent, if you've ever done these fights before.)

Are you saying that because the solution can't fix all problems its not worth putting in?

[Singularity]

people who got a carry-clear (many, many people, more than will be blocked by not having a bonus) will still be able to be dishonest about their ability to down content and still get into your PF

I dispute this statistic. It states, in effect, that among players willing to join a PF farm group without being capable of farming, more of them have the clear than don't. I find that somewhat unlikely.

It's a waste of time because the offered solution just doesn't make any significant impact to the problem.

I dispute this assertion as well. I would expect that, among candidate players for a farm group, the majority of those capable of farming have the clear, whereas the majority of those incapable do not have the clear. The suggested option filters out the majority of those incapable while allowing the majority of those capable to join. Therefore it makes assembling an effective farm group out of random players more likely.

I would also say that, by closing one of the avenues by which undeserved clears may be obtained, the system reduces the number of players able to circumvent it. Hence it makes itself more effective.

[Whiteroom]

I always like how one of the big arguments people use against this solution is that, "It doesn't solve the problem of bad players 100%, so it's pointless!"

How often do you see problems like the one mentioned getting solved 100%.

It does not solve the problem of player skill being low. It can effect it over time, but does not solve it. What it does solve 100% is first timers sneaking into farm groups for carries. Which is it's own issue.

[Eidolon]

Oh I understand the purpose just fine, thanks.

I just happen to think this is more of a matter of "check yourself" rather than anything SE should (or likely will) act upon. Because really, why would SE implement a feature that would just make it even harder for its playerbase to attempt the content that they create? It's not like the content has a terribly long lifespan as it is in a game like this, you know.

Fun fact:
adding the ability to filter members from party finder does not affect a player's access to the content. They are still able to create a PF, join a PF (That they *ARE* eligible for) as well as create their own PF and enter via DF. The simple fact that you believe this creates a barrier to entry (That does not already exist) simply shows just how little about the suggestion you understand.


This content will have a 3month lifespan. The weapons will be relevant for off-classes, and people will continue to practice, farm, etc. it leading up to the next major patch. 3 Month isn't too bad in terms of this game - it's about half the raid cycle (Likely this content will be outdated by the next EX-primal + catchup content, but people will still run it even after that.)