Please Add no bonus option for PF

[Synrin]

But the majority of those that would join a farm group without having a clear are like that. Those are the ones that this filter would block.

If someone is one of those rare examples that you cite, then they can ask for an exception. I expect they'd probably be granted it, but ultimately it's rightfully the party leader's decision.

This is exactly the thing, those who are the exceptions will ask and talk to to the leader, instead of sneaking, lying and just in general not caring about the party.

[Singularity]

I would say it is reasonable to expect that someone that has not cleared is probably not capable of farming. A farm group is not merely looking for a kill, but smooth, efficient, repeated clears, including recovery from mistakes that may happen. That requires a degree of comfort with a fight that someone is unlikely to have if they have not cleared it yet.

Note unlikely, not impossible, but the /tell system already exists for someone that has not cleared, but believes themself comfortable enough with the fight to farm it.

[CyrilLucifer]

snip a dee doo da

I absolutely agree. I often join as a WHM in a PF where one's only looking to fill a slot for WHM (usually it's WHM/AST for one slot and AST/SCH for the second) and tell the leader I can play the roles of both main healing WHM and Noct AST, so he should edit the needed classes in PF to accept any of them so we have a wider pool to draw from. Talking to clarify even minor issues helps everything run more smoothly; even though AST can fill the same role as WHM, it's still respectful to discuss my intentions with the party beforehand.

On the subject of your top line, I was in a PF the other day that had exactly that happen. To avoid storytime, basically, dude was a scumbag and he ended up blacklisted and kicked for reasons that weren't his job change.

Er, back on point. I agree. Even if you're skilled, fibbing about your experience is very similar to being dishonest about which job you're going to play just so you can get a party slot. Just don't do it. Other opportunities will come later, don't ruin everyone else's time.

[Eidolon]

Anyone who is against this option is either,

A) Not understanding the purpose of it
or
B) Doesn't want to have the ability to be carried taken away.


And I'm going to go over the silly reasons why this is.

First, let's take a look at something one poster said - and it's the big 'arguement' (And I coin that term loosely) that a lot of people fall back on. It's the arguement that 'Adding this option to the PF will divide the community!'

Do you know what is funny? It is simply how wrong this statement is. It is simply how short-sighted and blind these people are.

Tell me, what do you think is more likely to create segregation:
A) A system that prevents you from joining a party finder because you do not meet the qualifications
or
B) People who stop using the PF because they'd rather go with their FC/static/LS since they know they wont' be lied to by these people and will see more consistent progress?

And I want you to think long and hard about B, because that is often what people are doing with fights like this because they can't trust the party finder to match them with the people they want to go with.

Secondly, I want to tackle an issue another poster tried to bring up. 'You were new once', which is an arguement that is moreso an appeal to emotion than an appeal to reason.

Remind me again what *you* had before you got lucky enough with a group? Oh yeah.. bonus. Were you lazy, expected a carry and or had no knowledge, and if so, did this all magically change the instant you got your achievement?

First of all, in regards to this, I just want to state how disingenuous you are to suggest that it was 'because they got lucky enough with their group.' I spent over a week creating Learning Phase 2, 3, and then clear attempt parties without any luck. I eventually asked a farm party who only needed my role if they'd like me to go along - and guess what?

It was one of the people who had been in my clear attempts and knew me as a good player. They let me in and I got my clear easily. But I didn't stop doing learning parties after this.

For my static, for example, All 7 of them got the achievement after I Had already cleared and farmed it. Tell me, did they 'Get lucky and clear it'? Did they 'expect a carry' from me? It is quite disrespectful to refer to it as 'luck' for the people who get their clear, and completely misses the point - it is all about effort that people want to see.

Yes, obviously everyone was new once. However, what everyone did was NOT attempt to break into / force their way into PF's in order to get their clear. People - myself included have sent tells to PF leaders and have been given a chance to get their clear (And in my case, we farmed after for a good 2 hours.)

Now, I am not sure about your server, but on my server, there are three types of Party Finders. Farms, Clears, and Learning. Though a lot of people treat Clears and Learning as the same (Even though they shouldn't), these are the ones where a New player bonus would and should remain, until they've done the fight so extensively that it is engrained into their bones. Once the person has it down to a point where they have a low margin of mistakes and have cleared, they should move onto Farms.

People - myself included - will give people the chance to prove themselves in the PF if they show integrity and honesty. But it requires you to match the PF's requirement (In this scenario, Farm*) and to be HONEST. This is something that does not split the community - rather, it brings us together, because we learn the people we can trust. We give eachother a chance. We continue to work together to get our own loot, as well as the loot and clears for others.

The exception to the rule is those who get caught in the transition. As another poster said,

If someone is one of those rare examples that you cite, then they can ask for an exception. I expect they'd probably be granted it, but ultimately it's rightfully the party leader's decision.

[Felis]

How about an option to remove the bonus for first timers instead of removing the first timers?

[Fynlar]

Anyone who is against this option is either,

A) Not understanding the purpose of it
or
B) Doesn't want to have the ability to be carried taken away.

Oh I understand the purpose just fine, thanks.

I just happen to think this is more of a matter of "check yourself" rather than anything SE should (or likely will) act upon. Because really, why would SE implement a feature that would just make it even harder for its playerbase to attempt the content that they create? It's not like the content has a terribly long lifespan as it is in a game like this, you know.

[Archaell]

I support the option, yet with the amount of carrying I am afraid it is not good enough.

Imo the bonus should state who the new player is - this alone would scare a lot of players from cheating the system.

The bonus should stay for multiple clears. Let's say a random number like 5 - to keep the players in the learning parties longer.

And the farm option should not be unlocked until about 10 clears are achieved etc. and until the player beats the SSS dummy with the job he wants to get in.

The issue right now isn't just the bonus itself but also how easy it is to remove it with carrying.

[Aquaslash]

Because really, why would SE implement a feature that would just make it even harder for its playerbase to attempt the content that they create?

But that's not what this feature would do. Guess what those people that need to learn or clear could, can, and should do?

Make.

Their.

Own.

PRACTICE PARTIES!

For Hydealyn's sake, WHY is this such a difficult concept?

99.99999% of the time, if you haven't cleared the content, you cannot farm it. It's really that simple. Do you people have any idea how BS the drop rates are on these mounts? Those seven people don't want to spend time training nublets trying to get a carry. RNGesus is hell enough.

Like seriously. I want good reasons right now that newcomers just simply cannot make their own parties and learn content with other like minded players?

[Cold_Raven]

This option is a waste of time.

Yes, it's possible for a newcomer to not know the fight and screw up.
But even with this option it's still possible for a carried-clearer to enter and screw up your fight anyway (and they are more prevalent, if you've ever done these fights before.)

The amount of anguish this option would solve is insignificant.

The solution to this problem (grouping with unknowns without knowing their skill level), is for the starter of the PF to form a static.

That's what statics are for.

This option is not what PF is for.

Yes, you are allowed to have a goal of clearing content with similarly skilled people and ignore everyone else on the server.

But the only reasonable path to that goal is a static. Every other suggestion like this does not make that path easier, it makes it harder (you're meeting less new people who could be a great addition to your static).

It's a waste of development time.

[Odett]

Remind me again what *you* had before you got lucky enough with a group? Oh yeah.. bonus. Were you lazy, expected a carry and or had no knowledge, and if so, did this all magically change the instant you got your achievement?

We didn't get "lucky". We learned the fight. We made learning and clear groups of our own, or join others, to be comfortable with the fight and understand all the mechanics as well as how to deal with them. I also could have sent tells to a farming PF saying that I've been to enrage but haven't cleared, but as a tank, it will be clear when I am messing up and to kick me if I do so. You know what I didn't do? Sneak into a farm group and stay quiet or lie about my bonus.

This option is a waste of time.

Yes, it's possible for a newcomer to not know the fight and screw up.
But even with this option it's still possible for a carried-clearer to enter and screw up your fight anyway (and they are more prevalent, if you've ever done these fights before.)

The amount of anguish this option would solve is insignificant.

The solution to this problem (grouping with unknowns without knowing their skill level), is for the starter of the PF to form a static.

That's what statics are for.

This option is not what PF is for.

Yes, you are allowed to have a goal of clearing content with similarly skilled people and ignore everyone else on the server.

But the only reasonable path to that goal is a static. Every other suggestion like this does not make that path easier, it makes it harder (you're meeting less new people who could be a great addition to your static).

It's a waste of development time.

For the second time in this post, you don't need a static to clear EX primals and people who have cleared it before shouldn't be kept from farming because others are dishonest in their ability to down content. This is not a game design flaw, but a flaw in the playerbase and how such a huge number think it's ok to be dishonest. The notion that I have to get my static together (or find a static if I don't have one, or don't because I haven't the time for one) every time I want to clear non-Midas savage content is rather silly. You don't get to decide what belongs and doesn't belong in PF when farming in PF is possible, and only ruined when dishonest players join a farm group, whether it's people who've cleared who still don't know what they're doing, or joining and lying about your bonus instead of talking to the PF leader about it.