Monk 3.0 CHAKRA UNLEASHED

[Krindor]

Im confused, is crit still the highest stat weight?

I'm pretty sure it is, what the formula means is that det is only valued more than it was before but not enough to surpass crit. Crit is also meldable in larger amounts as a crit 4 gives 9 instead of 6 per materia.

The AA formula "increased" the auto attack damage at max level by about 20 so instead of it being calculated as 450 it is calculated as 470 the percentual increase in DPS is 4% for the AA and lower for the overall DPS. As for stat weights my guess is that it is has gained about 0.05 closer to crit but this only makes big enough off a difference for min-maxers.

As for if anyone can confirm this, he is perma banned from the forums. But if you want you can try this out yourself, calculate the expected damage with both formulas and then see which one matches your in game damage the best.

[Krindor]

Plugging that new formula into my spreadsheet doesn't change my weights one bit. I am hesitant to publish said weights if only because I wouldn't do that with a DRG formula and the resultant DPS total doesn't look enough higher than DRG to seem plausible to me anyhow.

Was the old stat weights calculated using the DRG formulas or the MNK formulas as the DRG formulas are quite close to the MNK formulas. As I was assuming the old formula for AA was used but if you were using the DRG AA formula that would explain why there isn't any signifcant difference. Though we still need updated stat weights due to the new ilvl increase.

[SunnyHirose]

Was using Dervy's DRG formula for AAs previously. Still using, for actions.

I'm also hesitant to call things like this a BiS candidate (ew!). If you're curious, though, the weights I'm getting for that are similar to DRG:

WD 12.967
STR 1.000
CRT 0.233
DET 0.175
SS 0.139

[Krindor]

Was using Dervy's DRG formula for AAs previously. Still using, for actions.

I'm also hesitant to call things like this a BiS candidate (ew!). If you're curious, though, the weights I'm getting for that are similar to DRG:

WD 12.967
STR 1.000
CRT 0.233
DET 0.175
SS 0.139

Correct me if I'm wrong but the increase of crit is a lot bigger than the increase of det. Det increased by about 26% while crit increased by close to 40% causing crit to grow further away from det. But from my understanding wouldn't we see them growing closer due to str effect on det?

Using my still kinda wonky spreadsheet I'm getting the same stat weight for det but crit is closer to 0.2.

Also "shrug" at that amount of SkS if that would be a BiS, I don't think making it to the 2nd invig is going to be possible......

[Violette]

Was using Dervy's DRG formula for AAs previously. Still using, for actions.

I'm also hesitant to call things like this a BiS candidate (ew!). If you're curious, though, the weights I'm getting for that are similar to DRG:

WD 12.967
STR 1.000
CRT 0.233
DET 0.175
SS 0.139

Given the lack of crit/det pieces, monks are going to get a lot of SkS this patch.
Which isn't bad per say, considering in A5S there are several breaks and in A6S/A8S we can see there are small gaps for you to recover tp in.

Also, you can get dem goads/tp machinists.

[SunnyHirose]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the increase of crit is a lot bigger than the increase of det. Det increased by about 26% while crit increased by close to 40% causing crit to grow further away from det. But from my understanding wouldn't we see them growing closer due to str effect on det?

Well, there really are multiple factors to this, but first we should compare like to like. Use the same models and formulas and stuff.

i240 crit/det: .233:.175 -> 1.33142857
i210 crit/det: .159:.129 -> 1.23255814 (3.2 potencies)
i210 crit/det: .154:.124 -> 1.24193548 (3.07 potencies)

So it appears Determination didn't grow as fast, but it's not as grim as all that. Another thing is that Critical scales exponentially and monks get a lot of crits.

Also, to a minor extent, this i240 set does have slightly more crit in the secondary stat budget going by proportions (I'm going to tentatively propose that the ridiculous skill speed robs primarily from Determination).

Given the lack of crit/det pieces, monks are going to get a lot of SkS this patch.
Which isn't bad per say, considering in A5S there are several breaks and in A6S/A8S we can see there are small gaps for you to recover tp in.

Also, you can get dem goads/tp machinists.

Yeah, it's not bad. It's horrible! No level of skill speed makes up for Stax. Not with fights this jumpy.

[Violette]

Another thing is that Critical scales exponentially and monks get a lot of crits.

Crit is not an exponential scale (that's SkS, and even then SkS is only minorly positive until we hit gcd's of >0.5s).

Crit scales closely to a 1-log(x), (I.E every point is less valuable because an increase from 9 to 10 is an increase of 11.1%, but 10 to 11 is 11% and 11% to 12% is 1.090909*).


Critical Damage itself (assuming 1% increase in critical chance = 1% increase in critical hit damage) is also not a positive scale, for the same reason as before. A flat increase will become less and less effective as the numbers get bigger.


SkS itself simply becomes better by virtue of doing more actions, given that going from 2.5 gcd to 2.4 gcd is an increase of 4% more actions, or 1 more action /100 seconds (minimum). Of course this does not affect auto-damage but it does for your gcds, and who doesn't want more bootshine. Simply put, you should be aiming to have as much crit, det and SkS as you can sustain (i.e. without losing out on tp/forcing a tp song). Spiting SkS simply because "I run out tp faster" is on an argument if you play as smart as possible and still run out of tp.

[SunnyHirose]

Sounds to me like you have yet to brush up on the change from Critical Hit Rate to Critical in Heavensward, so I will refrain from critiquing your evaluation in detail. I'm not calling it that to be cute, by the way; I'm actively disagreeing with the English localization's decision not to update the name for 3.0 like the Japanese version did. As for whether it is actually exponential as opposed to "the theorycrafter's exponential that's actually quadratic" or whatever, I've never really looked into it and never really cared, either. (My focus has always been more on the here and now, using gear you can actually get and examining what the gear you already have does.)

As for what you have to say about skill speed... the practical considerations are:
- It's weak as a pure damage stat, and it is easy to run out of TP at current gear levels (mid 500s if you use Fracture, mid 600s if you don't, less with Fey Wind / Arrow)*. And every raid tier since SCoB has involved minutes-long stretches of damage where you absolutely must hit the second Invigorate to be competent; this one doesn't appear to be an exception. So most points that go into skill speed after that point is something that would've better gone into Critical or Determination.
- It is a good stat insofar as it makes your job easier. This is most notable if it lets you keep your Greased Lightning. However, the introduction of Form Shift has by and large replaced most of the help this provides to most monks, and Tornado Kick is even there for you to cut your losses, so skill speed is more limited in this dimension than it used to be.
- Any time you flub getting a GCD right on time, skill speed hasn't helped you and may even have contributed to the problem. Generally speaking, people let GCDs stop more often than they realize. Latency and lag also play a minor role in that. Either way, would've contributed more damage if it could've been Critical or Determination.

*yes, you can and have to sacrifice the Forbidden Chakra for a Purification, but you don't break even on that one.

Hence my initial evaluation. Monk isn't going to non-viable, but I don't exactly anticipate good times for the job this tier.

[Ragology]

I have a question about how hitting the tp floor sooner due to skillspeed is bad for monks?

The way I see it, as long as you're going through your rotation as usual then you're doing the same amount of damage in a shorter time. How quickly you empty out shouldn't make a difference, right?

[Ricdeau]

I have a question about how hitting the tp floor sooner due to skillspeed is bad for monks?

The way I see it, as long as you're going through your rotation as usual then you're doing the same amount of damage in a shorter time. How quickly you empty out shouldn't make a difference, right?

If you were the only person producing DPS then this could be true in certain circumstances so long as you didn't need to worry about hitting two invigorates. However, you are only providing part of the party/raid's DPS so you are also reliant on their ability to produce damage as well. It's an unlikely scenario that an entire raid will be able to counter the TP consumption of extremely high SS levels. In the end you are going to have to either use Purification over Forbidden Chakra or cause your Bard/Machinist to provide TP more often.

The important thing to remember here is this isn't a personal DPS game. While monk only provides personal DPS and no raid DPS utility, it's raid DPS that gets you through the fight.