Pally Is Almost Perfect

[eagledorf]

PLD and DRK are both far from almost perfect. Let's look at what's still weak about each job and think about if it's a problem or not.

PLD:

1. Runs out of TP the fastest of the tanks
2. Weakest debuff with the highest cost to apply
3. Lacking in magical buffs
4. Low DPS, no burst
5. Support spells still cancel
6. No AoE on GCD

DRK:

1. Lacking in reliable physical buffs
2. DPS, self-healing, support all dependent on taking damage frequently
3. Highest penalty for hate generation

For PLD:

1. Extremely problematic because Paladins require TP for all their damage-dealing skills and ranged hate-generating skill; PLD is also the only tank that requires TP to stun.
2. PLD is the only tank that can't debuff both damage types and Halone is the most expensive of the debuff skills to keep up.
3. Mainly problematic when compared to WAR, would be less so if Stoneskin couldn't cancel and no. 2 was fixed IMO.
4. Extremely problematic despite the tank DPS nerf. Low burst also means low burst hate and even lower DPS in actual content.
5. This is mostly problematic because of numbers 2-4, otherwise it's fine if they're basically OT only skills.
6. This is problematic because on a trash pull a PLD stops contributing anything after Blind resist sets in (~10s). There should be an AoE skill that can be spammed, but too expensive to be sustained like a DRK can sustain Unleash so PLD have to still mix in Flashes or heals.

DRK:

1. This is mainly problematic compared to WAR. SE has kept magic damage a fair part of raid content so it's not a disadvantage compared to PLD.
2. This is problematic because DRK will either perform poorly as OT or be overpowered as MT for as long as this remains the case. I also think it's not a logical design for a tank, but that's a matter of opinion.
3. This is problematic mainly in comparison to WAR.

Other comments:

1. I personally think Divine Veil should also proc on "absorb" heals as well as spells. Right now the fairy can proc Divine Veil, but Synastry cannot and this would fix this problem. As a bonus, casting Clemency on a third party would also proc it with this change.

2. Dark Dance and Bulwark are way under-powered compared to Raw Intuition. They're not only unreliable, they also have a weaker average efficacy.

[Februs]

Burn me for thinking this, but I am not totally against flooring at 4 minutes ... I would honestly like to see it stretched maybe a bit further, but I personally like some flaws to be present.

I'm striking the match ... Just kidding.

I am going to have to disagree with you, though (first time for everything, right?). Like you, I am totally okay with running out of Tp in 4 minutes. That's not the problem. The problem is that I have no way to manage my Tp. I don't want a perfect job. I want a functional one that requires thought, planning, and execution. In short, I want a little more depth out of my Pld.

The way things are now, when I run out of TP I'm forced to just sit there and go, "Welp ... Guess I'll just wait for the next TB to pretend to be useful." That's not good. Now, consider a slight hypothetical change in which Riot Blade provides Tp instead of Mp while in SwO. In this situation, instead of just accepting the fact that I ran dry and am helpless, I have a judgement call to make. Do I sacrifice defense in favour of Dps and Tp regeneration? Or do I turtle up and patiently wait it out? It's a choice. Making the correct decision requires forethought and knowledge of the boss mechanics. If I'm expecting a TB, for example, then it's best to wait. If I'm expecting adds to Tank, then it's best to wait. If not ... then maybe it's time to gamble. This is just one possible change they could have made that would have added some depth to the job, as well as justify any future increases to Skill Speed that Pld might see with upcoming gear/expansions.

Am I the only one who used “Tempered Will” during ThorEx out of spite?????? Every time I run my PLD out, I seem to press this skill with more venom and spewing disgust than any other skill in the game. Including the fishing ones…

No, my friend. Like you, I use TW whenever I can. I even sometimes use it when I know that I don't have to and it has absolutely no use whatsoever, just because it's a button to press (#TankConfessions).

As for Sword Oath, my wishes for that Oath are not in how much dmg potential it possibly has. I'm more interested in how much uniqueness of play a Pld can get out of it, and how much it could do for the Pld's identity.

As it is, additional auto attack dmg is, quite frankly, uninspired (sorry, SE, but I call it like I see it). They clearly wanted to do something with the speed of the Pld's weapons, but didn't really know how to do anything meaningful with it. Auto attack dmg increase is fine, I guess, but a flat potency increase is silly and shows a tremendous lack of foresight. Not only does it not play off of any of Pld's current moves, it also leaves no room for working with future additions to the job. At one point, it did provide some measure of hope in that different styled swords could see increased returns from SwO, but they never really went anywhere with that either. In fact, they've been drifting away from this idea, because all of the swords in the game are slowly becoming uniform and homogenized. The same could almost be said for Pld's Oaths.

War's see different move paths open up to them depending on what stance they are in. Drk's see both different move sets and different attack effects, depending on what stance they're in (Darkside isn't a "stance" ... blah blah blah). Pld plays exactly the same regardless of what Oath they are in. Nothing changes, other than they don't suffer a dmg reduction. That is a very uninspired job design.

If SE wanted to actually do something meaningful to the Pld job, then they would divide the Oaths by the way that they were actually defined. Shield Oath would be all about the shield. Sword Oath would be all about the sword. This means that the Oath that is in greater need of a fix is actually Shield Oath, because we only have two shield abilities in our entire kit (shield swipe and shield bash), and neither of them are on a combo. That should never have happened. Shield Oath should have shield related mechanics, and Sword Oath should be about sword related mechanics. That way, when players are learning Pld, they can spend their time playing GLD learning their offensive kit and their time playing Pld learning their defensive kit. If they wanted to keep Pld dps lower (for some unknown and arbitrary reason), then they still could. They'd just have to adjust the Oaths as necessary (say, focusing on skill speed instead of potency).

[vigioX-Sun]

an here i was thinking PLD got a great buff ,guess ppl are never happy.
its never gonna be perfect,none of the class will ever be.

[Lambdafish]

an here i was thinking PLD got a great buff ,guess ppl are never happy.
its never gonna be perfect,none of the class will ever be.

It did get great buffs, they improved the situation (mostly to balance the class with the global tank changes), but did not fix them completely. Its not that we are never happy, its just that tweaking a few numbers does not fix the fundamental core of the problem.

[Aaliyahrose]

Oath swapping basically did not change. It doesn't cancel our combo anymore. Great. It still takes a turn of the GCD, meaning that the best time to use it is at the start of a combo (typically when FoF comes back around off of CD). Meaning the optimal way of using SwO is: Sword Oath > Fight or Flight > Fast blade ... notice that this usage does not interrupt our combo anyway? That's cuz' it doesn't. The optimal way of using Sword Oath never did. So this change is just window dressing.

The best time to Oath swap would be Fast Blade > Sword Oath > Fight or Flight > Savage Blade.

EDIT: You will lose less hate if none at all performing this combo. Oath swapping this way lets PLD let loose a Goring Blade finisher with full damage ticks instead of that 15% reduced Goring blade damage tick.

Starting in Shield Oath: Fast Blade > Fight or Flight > Riot Blade > Sword Oath > Circle of Scorn > Goring Blade > Shield Oath.

Notice how you lose very little down time in the GCD between Sword Oath and your next GCD ability, making it better than what you are making it out to be.

[Synestra]

2. Dark Dance and Bulwark are way under-powered compared to Raw Intuition. They're not only unreliable, they also have a weaker average efficacy.

Also could anyone explain why Bulwark has 180s recast while being 60% chance while DD is same 60% with way shorther recast? is it because block is potentially stronger than parry? Also Bulwark is pretty damn weaksauce and unreliable for bosses, atm it feels more like filler CD for singletarget fights.

[Edewen]

Starting in Shield Oath: Fast Blade > Fight or Flight > Riot Blade > Sword Oath > Circle of Scorn > Goring Blade > Shield Oath.

Notice how you lose very little down time in the GCD between Sword Oath and your next GCD ability, making it better than what you are making it out to be.

I don't remember the exact maths, but at least last patch i read on here that in order to justify the loss of the gcds for the swap you would need to stay in sword for at least a few combos. swapping for one dot, even boosted is not going to make up the difference of losing 2 gcds. if you are swapping that fast, it would probably be more beneficial to simply drop shield and put it back up only incurring one gcd cost. Still doubt the math would make it worth it for such a short period

[SpookyGhost]

is it because block is potentially stronger than parry?

Probably. Also probably why Sheltron is one block only.

[eagledorf]

Also could anyone explain why Bulwark has 180s recast while being 60% chance while DD is same 60% with way shorther recast? is it because block is potentially stronger than parry? Also Bulwark is pretty damn weaksauce and unreliable for bosses, atm it feels more like filler CD for singletarget fights.

Uh, probably because Dark Dance is 30% (Unless I missed a change at some point)

[Violette]

Also could anyone explain why Bulwark has 180s recast while being 60% chance while DD is same 60% with way shorther recast? is it because block is potentially stronger than parry? Also Bulwark is pretty damn weaksauce and unreliable for bosses, atm it feels more like filler CD for singletarget fights.

At the moment we're seeing blocks up to 33%? Might be lower after every pld moved to vit acc, but 33%+60% block rate on top of the already good block rate (so we're talking 70%upwards block minimum), means it's a viable defense against multi-hit physical tank busters.

Dark Dance is only a 30% chance increase to something with 20% damage reduction (and a low 7-8% base), which can have 20% evasion added on top (not good), meaning for physical multi-hit tank busters DRK's have to burn Shadowskin/Shadow Wall instead of say, bulwark.

Also because the dev's hate plds.