Pally Is Almost Perfect

[Valkyrie-Amber]

I have to say I'm generally rather happy with 3.2 pld cause before 3.2 it was super lacking now its better because many people begged for these changes including I

as for tp it lasts alittle longer now than it did prior to 3.2 so should be fine most part.

[Februs]

Perfect? I think not...

Clemency was a decent change. I guess it makes it a little easier to use, though it doesn't make much of a difference, considering it was only ever used in fixed places during scripted fights anyway. It still can't be surecasted, so that really hasn't changed.

Divine Veil was also a good fix, in that it now works the way it should have worked from the start.

Pld Dps ... is still bullsh*t and chips. We got a potency buff, only to have our overall Dps nerfed by the Tank-wide Nerf. Gee, SE. Thanks a bunch for making our Dps go absolutely nowhere (actually might be a tad lower). All in all, though, I can live with this. Pld dps was always low (for some, garbage, arbitrary reason), so it's nothing new, and the Dps checks aren't as stupid this time around.

Tp ... Still sucks. I mean, wow. It takes me 4 minutes to flat-line my Tp bar instead of 3. What an awesome fix! Thanks SE! You have no idea how much that extra minute means to me! /sarcasm.

I'm not saying that Pld's should never run out of Tp (like one particular Tank we all know well), but it is stupid that Pld's have no way to manage their Tp expenditure. Before anyone points this out (because I've seen this argument before), No. Clemency does not count as Tp management. It is only ever used in fixed times during fights. You can not spam cast it to make up your Tp, and each cast of Clemency is a huge Dps loss (which is the complete opposite of the goal of managing your Tp). Further, given that we can already murder our Tp bars (albeit slower) now, their Tp reductions are only a temporary fix. when skill speeds start to increase, we could very well be back down to the same spot where we were before the patch. Then we'll have to start this whole mess all over again.

Cover was completely ignored.

Tempered Will was completely ignored. The main problem with these two being that Pld is the ONLY tank job that has moves that they don't, and often can't, use. That's just plain stupid.

Oath swapping basically did not change. It doesn't cancel our combo anymore. Great. It still takes a turn of the GCD, meaning that the best time to use it is at the start of a combo (typically when FoF comes back around off of CD). Meaning the optimal way of using SwO is: Sword Oath > Fight or Flight > Fast blade ... notice that this usage does not interrupt our combo anyway? That's cuz' it doesn't. The optimal way of using Sword Oath never did. So this change is just window dressing.

Shield Oath was a decent change. It helps secure an aggro lead, and makes tank swapping easier. Though, this is hardly unique to Pld, because every tank had their enmity increased. So ... nothing special here. Moving on.

Sword Oath was ignored ... again. I'm not sure there's a number in existence for how many times a change has been requested to SwO. Everything from potency buffs to effect changes have been submitted to SE. What did we get? Nothing. It's exactly the same, and the best advantage of having it active is not having your dps reduced by the dmg reduction of shield oath... which you can also get just by dropping shield oath (which did not cancel combos, ever, and could be used more freely from the start). Is this absolutely horrible? No. It functions just fine, but it was certainly a missed opportunity for SE to do something meaningful to the Pld job.

All in all, Pld's changes were fine, I guess, but they are tremendously lack luster. The job plays exactly the same as it did before. Most of the serious, long standing, issues that have plagued it are still around in one form or another. The only one that I can say is a solid, undoubtedly good, change was the increase of Pld aggro on savage blade, as it rewards players for maximizing their Dps instead of just spamming RoH/Flash. All in all, though, the change is mostly just there. There were so many different things that they could have done to give Pld a serious overhaul, address all of it's issues, and give it a solid identity, but, as usual, they took the shortest and simplest path to "fixing" it. It functions now, sure, but the changes are nothing special and definitely not perfect.

[Aaliyahrose]

Oath swapping basically did not change. It doesn't cancel our combo anymore. Great. It still takes a turn of the GCD, meaning that the best time to use it is at the start of a combo (typically when FoF comes back around off of CD). Meaning the optimal way of using SwO is: Sword Oath > Fight or Flight > Fast blade ... notice that this usage does not interrupt our combo anyway? That's cuz' it doesn't. The optimal way of using Sword Oath never did. So this change is just window dressing.

The best time to Oath swap would be Fast Blade > Sword Oath > Fight or Flight > Savage Blade.

EDIT: You will lose less hate if none at all performing this combo. Oath swapping this way lets PLD let loose a Goring Blade finisher with full damage ticks instead of that 15% reduced Goring blade damage tick.

Starting in Shield Oath: Fast Blade > Fight or Flight > Riot Blade > Sword Oath > Circle of Scorn > Goring Blade > Shield Oath.

Notice how you lose very little down time in the GCD between Sword Oath and your next GCD ability, making it better than what you are making it out to be.

[Edewen]

Starting in Shield Oath: Fast Blade > Fight or Flight > Riot Blade > Sword Oath > Circle of Scorn > Goring Blade > Shield Oath.

Notice how you lose very little down time in the GCD between Sword Oath and your next GCD ability, making it better than what you are making it out to be.

I don't remember the exact maths, but at least last patch i read on here that in order to justify the loss of the gcds for the swap you would need to stay in sword for at least a few combos. swapping for one dot, even boosted is not going to make up the difference of losing 2 gcds. if you are swapping that fast, it would probably be more beneficial to simply drop shield and put it back up only incurring one gcd cost. Still doubt the math would make it worth it for such a short period

[Februs]

Starting in Shield Oath: Fast Blade > Fight or Flight > Riot Blade > Sword Oath > Circle of Scorn > Goring Blade > Shield Oath. Notice how you lose very little down time in the GCD between Sword Oath and your next GCD ability, making it better than what you are making it out to be.

Not quite. What you're suggesting assumes that the Pld swaps back instantly after they apply their DoT, but that is not optimal. To maximize their Dps, Pld's should be remaining in SwO for the entire duration of FoF (unless boss mechanics require otherwise). Swapping back immediately after applying Goring blade is actually a potency loss, because you are losing out on roughly 17 seconds of increased dmg output. For a full rotation of 30 seconds (FoF's CD timer), and assuming you are beginning your rotation with a FoF buff to your enmity, you're actually looking at using FoF at the beginning of a Goring Blade Combo to maximize potency. The rotation looks like this:

> SwO > FoF > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Goring Blade > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Royal Authority > Fast Blade > Savage Blade (FoF falls off here, at 20 seconds)> Royal Authority > Shield Oath (oGCD's are not included, because they are rotated in between GCD moves)

The reason it works out like this is because of the timing of a Pld's first use of Fight or Flight, which is typically used at the beginning of a Pld's enmity rotation to secure aggro. FoF's cooldown is 30 seconds. In that time, at a full 2.5 seconds, Pld's can use 12 GCD moves. That's four of their combos (2.5s x 3 =7.5s per combo. 7.5 x 4 = 30s). FoF will be back up just in time for the fifth combo. Meaning, to buff the entirety of a single Goring Blade combo and two consecutive Royal Authority combos, the Pld swaps oaths at the start of their GB rotation.

Circle of Scorn is not included in the rotation, because it's Cool down is actually 5 seconds faster than FoF, meaning that it's up one full combo in advance of FoF. A Pld could wait to pop it, but waiting 5 seconds to pop CoS every time FoF circles around will start to stack by the end of the fight, so it turns out to lose you more dps in the long run.

Enmity is also not an issue in this rotation. Pld's tend to use FoF at the start of their enmity rotation (Ie: Shield Lob > FoF > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > RoH > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Goring Blade > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Royal Authority / RoH depending on how much of a lead you need on enmity), thereby securing enmity at the start of the fight. Before 3.2, Pld's could hold enmity doing this no problem and were never at risk of losing hate when swapping to SwO during the duration of FoF. Given that enmity has been increased on both Shield Oath and Savage Blade post 3.2, Pld's should have even less trouble holding hate when doing this.

[Ultimatecalibur]

> SwO > FoF > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Goring Blade > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Royal Authority > Fast Blade > Savage Blade (FoF falls off here, at 20 seconds)> Royal Authority > Shield Oath (oGCD's are not included, because they are rotated in between GCD moves)

FoF is 30s long post 28. You can fit 2 Goring Blade and 2 Royal Authority combos into one FoF. If you really want to get the most out of Stance Dancing you would use this rotation:

Fast Blade > SwO > FoF > Riot Blade > Goring Blade > FB > Savage Blade > Royal Authority > FB > SB > RA > FB > RB > GB > FB (FoF falls off around here) > ShO > SB > RA

[Fernosaur]

FoF is 30s long post 28. You can fit 2 Goring Blade and 2 Royal Authority combos into one FoF. If you really want to get the most out of Stance Dancing you would use this rotation:

Fast Blade > SwO > FoF > Riot Blade > Goring Blade > FB > Savage Blade > Royal Authority > FB > SB > RA > FB > RB > GB > FB (FoF falls off around here) > ShO > SB > RA

What this guy said. You can fit two of your most powerful skill into FoF. You're not doing right if you don't do it like this. This... might not necessarily apply for your high enmity opener, though.

[Februs]

Snip.

That's true, and I made an error there (a little sleep deprived). That said, I'm still not seeing how your way is more optimal. Looking at just the amount of potency buffed and the timing of FoF's CD, I'm pretty sure it still works out to be better to swap Oaths before the combo, in order to save time. Doing some quick napkin math, this is what I'm looking at:

Your suggested way: Fast Blade (150 pot) > SwO > FoF > Riot Blade (230 pot) > Goring Blade (240 pot + 50 pot) > Fast Blade (150 pot) > Savage Blade (200 pot) > Royal Authority (350 pot) + FB (150) + SB (200) + RA (350) + FB (150) + RB (230) + GB (240 +50) + FB (150) >ShO

Combined Buffed Potency of 2740

My suggested way: ShO > FoF > FB (150) > RB (230) > GB (240+50) > FB(150) > SB(200) > RA(350) > FB(150) > SB(200) > RA(350) > FB(150) > RB(230) > GB(240+50) > ShO

Combined Buffed Potency 2740


The amount of potency buffed is identical. The only difference is that my preferred method does not delay FoF. It is used on CD, every 30 seconds, like clockwork. Meaning that, over the course of the fight, I'm not stacking 2.5 seconds each time I delay FoF. This is the exact same way I did it before Oaths were changed, and, by the looks of that quick math, there is really no additional benefit to doing it the new way over the old way, unless I'm missing something (which is possible, since I haven't slept). If there is one downside to my way, it's that it cuts the application of the second DoT a little close. If there are any interruptions to your rotation during the fight, you stand to miss out on a bigger potency than in your preferred method. That said, to my recollection, it is a rare instance in which I don't get that last GB off in time.

I don't know though, I could be totally missing my mark on this. If I am, or if there's something else that I'm not considering, let me know. Because, at the moment, the change to Oaths really doesn't look like anything other than window dressing to me. It gives me a bit more freedom in my rotation, but no direct benefit.

[JackFross]

I just have one thing to say

Oath swapping basically did not change. It doesn't cancel our combo anymore. Great. It still takes a turn of the GCD, meaning that the best time to use it is at the start of a combo (typically when FoF comes back around off of CD). Meaning the optimal way of using SwO is: Sword Oath > Fight or Flight > Fast blade ... notice that this usage does not interrupt our combo anyway? That's cuz' it doesn't. The optimal way of using Sword Oath never did. So this change is just window dressing.

This is absolutely not true? The optimal way to turn Sword Oath on when FoF is back is now:

Fast > Riot > Sword > FoF > Goring > etc

Since delaying FoF in the GCD before the 3rd hit of your combo allows you to get that finisher + 4 more full combos before the effect wears off. Using it before Fast Blade makes it last for 4 combos and the next Fast Blade. Strictly worse by any measurement.

The lack of combo interruption is a huge deal.

I do agree with the rest of your post, though.

[IndigoHawk]

I am kind of amazed how many paladin abilities were modified without fixing much. I agree paladin is a bit better now but overall the changes were uninspired.

I do not understand why divine veil can't apply its weak shield immediately instead of requiring a two second cast that's often wasted because I'm just triggering veil. It's better but not good.

Other problems persist: no way to manage TP, an awkward combo that makes applying multiple dots take forever and is weirdly combined with mana regeneration, annoying to use stun, weak AoE, lack of utility, and other awkward abilities like Cover and Tempered Will that are to hard to use or have CDs that are too long for what they do.

I get the feeling no one has vision for paladin, so they had someone tweak some things and call it good. 3.2 is an improvement but not nearly perfect.