[spoilers]3.2 MSQ Discussion/Reaction thread

[CyrilLucifer]

Oh I'm not endorsing it, I just don't see what Hydaelyn gets out of this... Aside from telling us "important" information, all that has been achieved is casting some significant doubt on the path we've been following... Elidibus could waltz out and go "I told you you'd agree with me if you knew! If you'd joined us sooner Minifilia would still be here!" and he'd be right.

You amused me with gloating Elidibus, so take my like.

My crackpot thought on the bolded is that Hydaelyn can't resist the Echo, either. You were right there, directly communicating her, expecting answers regarding Minfilia and she has none to give save the truth. She couldn't directly push you away because of the Echo until she completely lacked the strength to sustain you, essentially doing the Mothercrystal equivalent of passing out. I guess I'm trying to say you were "invading" her, much like you "invade" someone's memories.

Edit for clarification: The Antitower was different, because, unlike other times, where she initiates communication with you, you initiated communication with her. And with the Echo probing her like that, she was unable to push you away.

[Nalien]

Edit for clarification: The Antitower was different, because, unlike other times, where she initiates communication with you, you initiated communication with her. And with the Echo probing her like that, she was unable to push you away.

She did push us away though... She used the very last of her strength to send us back to "the shore of the aetherial sea", I imagine we'd have been trapped there as Minfilia was were it not for that...

It's a very elaborate scheme if this is anything but a last desperate attempt to have us stop the Rejoining... There is more ammunition for us to sign up with the Ascians here, well... There would be if the Ascians weren't so painfully evil all the time... Except Elidibus of course, but he obviously is a schemer... Granted, we only know that through cutscene hacks, so far we have no idea he had the Warriors of Darkness sitting on the sidelines waiting for this, nor any idea he was involved with Thordan, or even than he is whispering sweet nothings in Uriangers ear...

[CyrilLucifer]

That's what I meant by "the Mothercrystal equivalent of passing out."

I don't think Hydaelyn wanted us to contact Her directly like that, even if only out of love and worry for us. She clearly didn't have the strength to sustain it. But we barged in anyway, against her will, because it's within our power to do so.

[Kallera]

In the face of perceived oblivion, you can justify about anything, it seems. At any rate, I am seeing it more and more likely for some of the Scions to justify act that they would have once called others out for, almost in the vein of FFVIIs AVALANCHE. I hope we don't fall into it ourselves, since we're holding to the idea that Minfillia's vision was, and should be, more than that.

[Nalien]

I don't think Hydaelyn wanted us to contact Her directly like that, even if only out of love and worry for us.

She wanted us there. This whole thing was set up to tell us what she told us, she knew full well that we'd eventually coming looking for Minifilia ("Though time and space hast thou journeyed unto me... as I knew thou wouldst."), that's why she had Minfilia get caught up in Flow. It's why Krile was saved, so we had someone talented enough to help us get there.

Nothing in the cutscene implied she was surprised to see us, rather she was expecting us... Heck, we were in Antitower when she called out to us, we didn't barge in, we battled our way to the "shore" of the aetherial sea, close enough that she could draw us in for a little chat, and then she sent us back.

I get that sacrificing Minfilia is bad, but what were the alternatives? Do nothing and let Elidibus have free reign to give His account of events? I don't actually see a good alternative here, I'm certainly not looking upon Hydaelyn with doubt now... All this has done is hammer home than she's at the end of her rope... Weak... Desperate... I'm certainly not looking at past events and questioning her now... It comes pretty close to victim blaming... Instead of thinking "Why did she only save Krile?" one should be thinking "Why did Nabriales nuke Val?". That is what we're dealing with her... An organization which ruthlessly nuked an entire island and a deity that could barely save one person (Krile was knocked out for how long exactly?). Hydaelyn sacrificing Minfilia is an act of sheer desperation, there is no indication that this is the norm for Hydaelyn, nor any indication that she wants us to bring her more orphans to eat. This was a regrettable, one time thing... Hydaelyn isn't suddenly some shady deity for this transgression...

[CyrilLucifer]

Hmm, if that's what she said, that's my mistake. I admit to watching the scenes at about 4am.

However, I do have to side with Fenral on the reason why. She seemed to want to guide us in the direction of banishing darkness. I believe how vague she was is the same thing as the short Echo scene with the WoDs from 3.1. It's SE leaking knowledge to the player slowly, teasing us with tidbits, but only just enough so that the universe's secrets aren't all revealed at once. And it comes off badly.

I'm actually wondering how this scene is intended to be interpreted, because I don't know if we're "supposed" to view it as a good thing to blindly follow your Goddess when she uses your friend as a mouthpiece, simply because she's your Goddess and "desperate."

Also, I'm of mind that it doesn't matter if Minfilia is alive, Hydaelyn did what Hydaelyn did, it can't really be defended. Do you know who is also alive?

Roundrox. And she's being literally mind raped upon the Illuminati's will. Are we going to suddenly forgive the Illuminati for that, even if they turn around and decide to shut down Alexander because we ask nicely?

It shocks me that anyone can even think Minfilia being alive makes Hydaelyn's actions suddenly "okay."

Edit: Referring mostly to Alisa with this.

[greyfurr]

Roundrox. And she's being literally mind raped upon the Illuminati's will. Are we going to suddenly forgive the Illuminati for that, even if they turn around and decide to shut down Alexander because we ask nicely?

It shocks me that anyone can even think Minfilia being alive makes Hydaelyn's actions suddenly "okay."

Edit: Referring mostly to Alisa with this.

The two things you are comparing aren't the same though. You are overlooking the fact that Minfilia chose to run back. She didn't have to. She could have left with us because after all if Hydaelyn was at all the vengeful sort, considering how weak she was/is, what could she have done to Minfilia if Min had decided to say, hell no, and leave with us? It's fine and all to disagree with Minfilia's choice but what has happened to her isn't equivalent at all to your other example.

[CyrilLucifer]

You are overlooking the fact that Minfilia chose to run back. She didn't have to.

Did she now?

Do you remember what Minfilia said?

"No!"

I could argue just as much that she didn't want to run back, but felt the pressure of her responsibility to do so. That's still unwilling coercion.

Edit to Nalien:
Or maybe even: "No! I can't leave! There's still so much I have to do! (but I must)"
"No! If I leave, what of my responsibilities?"

Or maybe even

"No! I still want to live!" (and this should never, ever be vilified).

It's as you said. We don't know.