Thread: [spoilers]3.2 MSQ Discussion/Reaction thread

Originally Posted by Riardon

She could have speak to us at any time but she didn't.

Didn't the Word of the Mother specifically mention how Hydaelyn had grown so weak that she couldn't really communicate with us anymore? The whole thing felt like it was staged to get us to directly seek out Hydaelyn after Ultima had weakened her. She directly intervened at Val to save Krile, since Krile had the knowledge to figure half this stuff out. Sent Minfilia back to get sucked up in Y'shtola's Flow so Minfilia could brought before her, knowing full well that we'd eventually try to find Minfilia and find our way there.

Not that effectively sacrificing Minifilia is a good thing, but what other options were there? It was sacrifice Minfilia, or let her (and thus the Scions) bumble around in the dark unable to even hear Hydaelyn anymore... Not that 3.2 has really changed any of that... We got an abridged cosmic-history lesson and she cut off before the most important part... Guess we can just go question old Middy for the rest... I'm not really left questioning her goals though, just her methods... I might wonder why she didn't just tell us all this back when she was powerful enough to do so (like at the start of the game...), but by her own account she has failed to prevent the Rejoining several times before... I can imagine a situation where one group of Warriors of Light got the whole info dump at the start of their quest, and it eventually panned out badly, so Hydaelyn refrained from telling us too much at once...

Actually, my money is on exactly that having happened... Perfect back story for the Warriors of Darkness, really...

I mean when it really comes down to it... Hydaelyn doesn't come across as the cosmic good guy... She banished Zodiark to the moon (just once, can a moon just be a moon?) and messed up reality in the process... Would be kind of hard to sell that as a good thing, were it not for the fact that we're essentially a product of that... It would be like "aliens" visiting us and going "Hey, sorry to bother you, but your universe was meant to be a single dense mass, everything after the Big Bang was a mistake... We need to rejoin it, you understand right?", I mean sure I'd understand, but like hell would I just bend over and let existence as I know it end...

Originally Posted by Nalien

Not that effectively sacrificing Minifilia is a good thing, but what other options were there? It was sacrifice Minfilia, or let her (and thus the Scions) bumble around in the dark unable to even hear Hydaelyn anymore... Not that 3.2 has really changed any of that...

We were this close to being able to make our own judgment calls about what to do from here on. With Urianger taking history lessons from Eldibus, we already had a source of cosmic truth, and somehow I highly doubt Minfilia would have sat around as a useless figurehead during our time in Ishgard. The Eorzean Alliance is kind of her baby. She was also beginning to have doubts after losing Moen, not to mention Eldibus was willing to talk openly with her, so whatever Hydaelyn's motives, she effectively beheaded us for the sake of keeping us on the path we were on. That's... shady.

Originally Posted by Fenral

We were this close to being able to make our own judgment calls about what to do from here on.

Were we? What makes Elidibus playing us any better than Hydaelyn? I mean that is all that was happening before... We weren't finding out the truth, we were being told the truth as Elidibus sees it, he is no more a trustworthy source than the Word of the Mother... I'd much rather have both accounts, to be honest... At least then I can side with who I want to side with... Had Hydaelyn done nothing? She couldn't communicate with us anymore. We'd have been left relying on Elidibus for Cosmic History 101, which is almost certainly going to be a bias account... That's basically game over for her, and seeing as the Rejoinings seem to correlate to Calamities... Well, I suspect it wouldn't be game over for us, I imagine the Echo grants us some safety from cosmic rebalancing, but it would almost certainly be game over for Eorzea as we know it, and most of the people therein...

Until Elidibus sets about building an orphanage or something, the Ascians will continue to be utterly unredeemable in my eyes. Not once have they done a single good thing, just constant dickery... Sucks for them that Hydaelyn banished Zodiark and ruined the universe. This is my universe now though, like hell I'm going to let them destroy it... In their eyes I'm sure we're the villains, the ones who ruthlessly destroyed the universe and insist on having pointless struggles with each other, but in my eyes, if they're not the ones directly responsible for starting such struggles, they're certainly adding fuel to the fire... These are the guys who went to a mourning Tiamat, tricked her into summoning a corruption of her beloved, and then told the Ascians how to trap him and enslave the entire brood... They're dicks, no two ways about it really, I don't care if my universe existing destroyed theirs...

Originally Posted by Nalien

the Ascians will continue to be utterly unredeemable in my eyes.

I don't think we can be friends anymore.

I actually didn't feel like the Scions were questioning Hydaelyn as much as they should have. They are sad because Minfilia is not longer Minfilia, but they didn't really ask the hard questions. Why was it required? Why did it happen? What is going to be expected of the Warrior of Light, if this was asked of Minfilia? Has Hydaelyn asked this of others, past or present? Will She ask for sacrifice again when Her energy dwindles?

The line that irritated me most, I think, was something akin to "Minfilia was always closest to Hydaelyn." Even said regretfully, it was disturbing, as if because she was closest, it's expected for her to be chosen as one of Hydaelyn's tools.

And do you know what that means?

We're next.

Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

I don't think we can be friends anymore.

Hey, maybe Elidibus did set up an orphanage, Kidibus had to come from somewhere, right?

Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

I actually didn't feel like the Scions were questioning Hydaelyn as much as they should have.

Hydaelyn isn't even the one we should be questioning... Both Hydaelyn and Elidibus are obviously bias to their own side.

You know who I trust right now? Midgardsormr.

We have Hydaelyn banishing Zodiark to the moon, and that creating "our" universe. Midgardsormr came from space and formed a contract with Hydaelyn to dwell here. You know what that suggests to me? That before our universe, we had Hydaelyn, Zodiark, and Midgardsormr, and likely plenty more. Hydaelyn banished Zodiark and changed everything, and Midgardsormr (and whoever else) got caught in the cross fire. I'm far more interested in his account and opinions at this point than Ascian or Hydaelyns...

Originally Posted by Nalien

and seeing as the Rejoinings seem to correlate to Calamities...

Yes, but it's interesting to note that even though the seventh Calamity failed, the Rejoining apparently went off without a hitch. Which means perhaps there was a way all along for Rejoining to take place without the massive death toll that resets humanity. Sure, the Ascians did it anyway, but do we have any idea what they're even fighting for? Were they once like us, simply deciding it was "the only way"? Can we really tell Ishgard to forgive and start mending bridges when we aren't willing to do the same?

Originally Posted by Fenral

Sure, the Ascians did it anyway, but do we have any idea what they're even fighting for?

By their own account, to return the world to how it once was. The implications of that statement are... less than pleasant, and they've given me no reason to doubt otherwise, Elidibus is the only one who seems remotely sane, the rest seem to enjoy destruction and messing with people...

Originally Posted by Fenral

Can we really tell Ishgard to forgive and start mending bridges when we aren't willing to do the same?

Ishgard isn't forgiving Nidhogg any time soon... The wyrm is technically already dead, even if we change their mind so we can save Estinien, and his brood is our source of crafting materials for eternity...

All we've gotten Ishgard to do is accept their history for what it is, and not lump all Dravanians together. I'll gladly accept that Hydaelyn screwed over Zodiark and the Ascians, but if the world as we know it is the result? I'm not going to let them destroy it. Worst case, Hydaelyn mirrors Thordan. The people of Ishgard could wonder what would be had Thordan not betrayed Dravania, or they could do the sensible thing and just get on with their lives... They could also go "Well, fairs fair, go ahead and destroy us then Nidhogg!", but that's equally insane...

I'll build bridges with Ascians when it becomes apparent that they aren't just immortal (and immoral) pricks. Elidibus and Kidibus are the closest we're getting to that at the moment though... I mean really, we're going to get uppity at Hydaelyn for sacrificing Minfilia, and then just roll over and accept the mountain of sh*t the Ascians have caused? Too our knowledge (the important part here), Hydaelyn has sacrificed one person for her means. Where do I even begin counting how many have been screwed over by the Ascians?