Mentoring: perhaps we're better off without it

[Nalien]

Because you need lv60 to help lv5 players learn and 1,000 dungeons to fully ensure you know the mechanics of Sastasha and Tam-Tara Deepcroft

So what? Should we be able to be a Mentor without Lv60 in each role? So when a new player wants help with Tam-Tara Deepcroft, you can't help because you're solely a DPS and and they need tanks and healers. Easy enough to have all the Jobs in that level range? Well, where do we cut this off then? Someone needs help with Lv50 content? What if someone needs help with The Vault? Lv60 is the most logical cut off for the requirement here, it means you've played the Job enough and can help with pretty much anything.

Doing 1,000 dungeons/trials to help some new player through Aurum Vale is equally as absurd.

I see the 1,000 instances as less of a "You know how to play" check, and more of a "You're dedicated to this game" check. I mean it's both really, but yeah... Do we want Mentors who drop off for months and have thus not really done that much content, or do we want Mentors who No Life the game and will likely always be available? There is a reason the newer versions of that Achievement are called Lifer... That said, if any of the requirements are over the top, I think it's that one.

That's all the requirements do, ensure Mentors are people who play. Is that perfect? Not really, but it's the best we're going to get. The notion that something like Stone, Sky, Sea should be incorporated would, IMO, have a negative impact on the system. It sends the message not that Mentors should be helpers, but instead that they should be drill sergeants who hammer in the finer points of an endgame rotation that new players may never really care for. Getting to Lv60 is a new players focus, not beating Sephirot.

[Waryax]

Doing 1,000 dungeons/trials to help some new player through Aurum Vale is equally as absurd.

The requirements just ensure quality over quantity. The same player can be expected to have more experience and knowledge after completing the requirements than what they did before. At the very least they won't have lost any.

[xenowind]

It's good to have a system encourage players to help each other. And if you're talking about duty finder, don't expect too much.
I just met a ice mage yesterday doing 400 dps when I was tanking daily ex, other monk could do over 1k dps. I only said hello and thanks, and I got 3 coms at the end.
There're peoples only want to play the game, and others want to PLAY the game, why bother. You probably will only meet the random guy once in a life, particularly bad ones.

[Animarelic]

Devil's Advocate: Just because someone has the 60's doesn't mean they make the requirements. You don't know anything about their other requirements or if they even came close to fulfilling them. You're telling us a one sided story. Maybe they weren't comfortable on the SCH and if you had a mentor's mentality would have taken up the DPS yourself and let it go but the way you "Poked" shows your attitude was bad from the start. Instead you could have said " I'll heal and you can DPS if you're comfortable" instead you came off like an <explicit> and forced the person to tilt. Not only did it result in you getting kicked but you wasted your time and possibly made them feel worse about the job. Also maybe you WERE BAD so they felt they had to take up the slack. Either way lack of communication is what caused the entire issue so...

TLDR, You BOTH seemed to lack the requirements of being worthy mentors so you came on here attacking a system that isn't even implemented fishing for sympathy and likes. "I'm going to queue up for A4N and wipe you purposely!" Said No One Ever.

[Toguro]

So what? Should we be able to be a Mentor without Lv60 in each role? So when a new player wants help with Tam-Tara Deepcroft, you can't help because you're solely a DPS and and they need tanks and healers. Easy enough to have all the Jobs in that level range? Well, where do we cut this off then? Someone needs help with Lv50 content? What if someone needs help with The Vault? Lv60 is the most logical cut off for the requirement here, it means you've played the Job enough and can help with pretty much anything.

The mentoring only works for a new players' first 40 hours. Newbies wont be in anything lv50 or above.

The notion that something like Stone, Sky, Sea should be incorporated would, IMO, have a negative impact on the system.

I agree completely. There should be no endgame content tied to Beginner Mentoring ever. That would be for something like Level 60 Mentoring.

I also believe 1,000 dungeons/trials would be more suitable for Level 60 Mentoring and have Beginner Mentoring set at 300. A good number when you're talking about bone dry dungeons like 15-44 at least. Aurum Vale is a *bit* harder. But after 300 dungeons you should know.

[Jetstream_Fox]

Good thing the mentor system also requires players to have commendations -- votes from other players that they did well in a party. And 1,000 dungeon runs to ensure the player has a lot of experience running the game dungeons

1000 instances ran doesn't mean you exactly know what to do in every instance, I have upwards to 2000 and if you asked me how to do The Dragon's Neck you're sol because I one and done that fight.

Also commendations aren't a good thing to measure either as tanks and healers are basically guaranteed them. Plus not to mention the times you get stuck with a group all leveling together and they commend you because they can't give themselves one.

These are examples that show flaws that further prove why the system is flawed from the start.

[Nalien]

The mentoring only works for a new players' first 40 hours. Newbies wont be in anything lv50 or above.

That's for Mentor chat.

Players who've past 40 hours can still seek out Mentors independently. Mentor Roulette is still going to occasionally put you in Sohm Al with a player who is there for the first time.

[Toguro]

That's for Mentor chat.

Players who've past 40 hours can still seek out Mentors independently. Mentor Roulette is still going to occasionally put you in Sohm Al with a player who is there for the first time.

Pretty much just as unproven as what I say about the 40 hours

[Waryax]

The mentoring only works for a new players' first 40 hours. Newbies wont be in anything lv50 or above.

Nothing is preventing you from continuing to mentor your prospect after they can't access the chat channel. You make it sound like your teaching would be completely ineffective at that point.

The chat channel should be better for finding the players or answering short questions anyway, which shouldn't be a thing after playing for 40 hours. And if it is, nothing is preventing people from asking a mentor-icon-person they see somewhere or making linkshells for extra mentoring.

If everybody stayed in the chat for longer to discuss all possible lengthy job-specific topics, we couldn't get to the people the system is really geared for from all the chat spam. That stuff should be talked in private or on another linkshell anyway to have conversational peace.

[Nalien]

Pretty much just as unproven as what I say about the 40 hours

What?

- Novice Network
Upon becoming a mentor, you will automatically gain access to the Novice Network, a chat channel where new adventurers can seek the advice of veteran players.
* The "New Adventurer" status is applied to all players who have less than 40 hours of play time.

- Duty Roulette: Mentor
Mentors will also gain access to Duty Roulette: Mentor, which assigns players to duties that are struggling to fill party member slots.
* With the exception of parties actively seeking members for an ongoing duty, Duty Roulette: Mentor will not match together a full party of mentors.

Granted, the Mentor Roulette doesn't actually specify filling groups with the first time bonus, but I could have sworn they mentioned that during the Live Letter. We absolutely have a easily identifiable symbol next to a Mentors name though, which absolutely allows anyone to seek them out for help/advice;

I would actually imagine many Mentors will be using the Novice Chat to recruit to their Free Companies/etc., it's basically a tool to help new players find their place in the games established community. No reason to think Mentors will stop being helpful after that 40 hours symbol drops off, and the Roulette makes no mention of being exclusive to such players.

There is probably a very good chance they're adding the Mentor Roulette at the same time as opening up all (except PvP Roulette, ffs!) to premade parties. That takes potential negative elements out of the Duty Finder, as they'll do the Roulette with friends (assuming they have any), while the Mentor Roulette picks up the slack with helpful players, rather than "I'm just here for the Roulette bonus" players... Assuming they don't fudge the Mentor rewards...

EDIT;

OK, from the Live Letter;

As a special privilege for mentors, we'll be adding "Duty Roulette: Mentor" to the Duty Finder, which will include all the trials and dungeons up until Patch 2.55, except for raids. This roulette will grant priority matching with players who have yet to complete dungeons and trials, as well as players who have the sprout icon next to their name.

With that in mind, it might make more sense for a Lv50 Job requirement, though given we can still seek out Mentors independently, I think Lv60 still fits.