Mentoring: perhaps we're better off without it

[Dgsoil]

You're right that the system is supposed to be helping understand the basics, I've preached that all day and night. The basics cover everything from customizing the system, how to handle combat with 3 other players, map layout and how to navigate through towns, open up teleports and a myriad of other things. These are things that can be forgotten or not addressed because a player didn't take the time to fully look through certain menus or read their basic tool kit. But that's where the huge glaring hole in the wall is at. Any player can get to level 60 on all 3 classes and not know the basics because they themselves didn't exactly learn them. That's why myself and others are saying this won't work because this system is built on tyne fallacy that level 60 with 1000 instances ran and 300 commendations doesn't mean they are honestly knowledgeable of everything in the game.

But you are missing the point though. I'm not saying bad people won't give bad advice, on the contrary I see that daily. What I am saying is that there is no reason to blow this out of proportion as many posters on this topic have been. You worry about bad players teaching bad habits, why don't you start a linkshell and run content/teach basics and enforce the good habits instead? Why is it so important that you don't meet requirements for this system exactly? Because lets face it, THAT is what most of the complaints about mentor system are on these forums right now. That certain players don't meet the requirements. (which are in fact too easy to reach, especially with the way people farmed commendations just to get glamour rewards)

There is no good way to handle it, one way would dictate people need to take a test, but it would be less than two hours after the content was released before all variants of the questions had answers posted on a list somewhere on the internet, then inexperienced/bad players would still be part of the system. This way people have to show they actually have played the game enough to achieve three requirements, but again it doesn't gate bad players from it. They could gate it behind top tier raids, but then the population ratio for mentors/students would be so skewed, and the top tier raiders aren't exactly known to be 'kind' to those they criticize. What do YOU think these requirements to be in this system should be?

TL;DR If you are a kind, helpful person you will help others with/without a mentor title. And there is no feasible way to make this system work that won't have a flaw. But it isn't about the system or rewards, it's about HELPING people.

[Jetstream_Fox]

You make good points

But the reason why I'm angry about the system is because of it being so flawed. While yes I can linkshell it up on my own and help people, I do that alot as is since my server is very much every player for themselves it seems which isnt good to start with. But now I run the risk of being "unknowing" because of a fault system that claims I'm not good enough at the time being to help new players because I didn't get my SCH to 60 and left it at 50. It's a system that can't be won and shouldn't have been implemented in this way. We all have seen players in the Duty Finder or even Party Finder that leave us scratching our heads as too how they have even leveled without knowing certain aspects of their class or in some cases being negligent with how they play. For that player to be negligent and have the option to mentor a new player is an alarm for me, granted I could get my SCH to 60 you're right, but that doesn't make my knowledge any less helpful. It's as if SE is looking down on people who have gotten a 60 in the trinity and placing them higher. Teachings shouldn't be measured in such trivial things such as levels, commendations and instances, but overall player success and helpfulness like you stated.

[Dgsoil]

But the reason why I'm angry about the system is because of it being so flawed. While yes I can linkshell it up on my own and help people, I do that alot as is since my server is very much every player for themselves it seems. But now I run the risk of being "unknowing" because of a fault system that claims I'm not good enough at the time being to help new players because I didn't get my SCH to 60 and left it at 50. It's a system that can't be won and shouldn't have been implemented in this way. We all have seen players in the Duty Finder or even Party Finder that leave us scratching our heads as too how they have even leveled without knowing certain aspects of their class or in some cases being negligent with how they play.

I do understand your frustration, I myself don't qualify for this system because I haven't gotten a tank to 60. But nothing stops you from doing so in the future, it's not something you can't meet the requirements for later. Take it slow, maybe level it up via the HW beast tribe quests since they level sync to your specific level, and you can have that scholar to 60 quicker than you might think.

[Waryax]

People who want to be mentors, or aren't in any way the target audience to be mentored (in the system being implemented) should stop making this about themselves.

The system is being put in place to help newcomers integrate into the game and create social connections more than anything. The information overflow (and on the other hand lack of) can be pretty intimidating for a new player. I see this system as a means to help them plow through it with some support from people with experience.

I can't see this system doing more harm than good, if someone who gives bad advice wants to do so, they will do it with or without the mentor system.

The system is all about bringing people who want help together with people who want to help.

[Jetstream_Fox]

I do understand your frustration, I myself don't qualify for this system because I haven't gotten a tank to 60. But nothing stops you from doing so in the future, it's not something you can't meet the requirements for later. Take it slow, maybe level it up via the HW beast tribe quests since they level sync to your specific level, and you can have that scholar to 60 quicker than you might think.

I can get to 60 in a day on my SCH believe me it's no challenge. It's the principal that this content is giving people the idea that you need to be a 60 in disciple of war and magic to have even the basic understandings of the game. Which has been agreed on is completely false .

[Sicno]

Maybe you got a bad data server group then. Only time I ever seem to run into bad players and drama is in raids. 4 man content I rarely get bads.

Doesn't seem like I'm part of a small unlucky group. There are lots of stories, you know.

[Toguro]

Dang this isn't even the "Mentoring Requirements... *Rant Style*" thread....


Wait where am I?

[Nalien]

Why do people keep thinking Mentors are meant to somehow fix Lv60 problems? That is entirely what Stone, Sky, Sea is for. That is the content that is meant to improve Lv60 players, the problem there being that it is entirely optional, so every terrible player is just going to continue being terrible by ignoring it (hopefully SE does the right thing and adapts it to design solo Trials for something like the Relic questline, which can force "Git Gud" on scrubs).

Mentors, though, are meant to be helping (not lecturing) new players;

- What is a mentor?
Mentors are veteran players who chose to offer their time and experience to help guide new adventurers. To facilitate their assistance, mentors will gain access to a special chat channel as well as a means to easily register for duties and trials with new players.

Question; What does knowing my Dragoons perfect Lv60 rotation have to do with helping out new players? The players Mentors will be helping likely wont even have Jobs unlocked, they're not going to know what half the skills I'd talk about are, that kind of information is entirely irrelevant to them and if anything dumping it on them would be detrimental more than anything. Mentors are literally just there to help with content and queues and provide a singular channel for new players to gravitate towards to meet players, rather than having several scattered groups who offer help. It is much more efficient to have a singular channel like that. I don't get the worry that terrible Mentors will influence new players, either... If I, as a Mentor, see shitty advice in the Mentor chat, am I somehow unable to correct that?

I really don't get this obsession people have with thinking Mentors should be the pinnacle of XIVs players... Who the f*ck cares if you can best Stone, Sky, Sea for Sephirot (Extreme)? Certainly not the new players who need you to be a Lv30 Healer so they can get through a dungeon to progress (and that is why we have a trinity Job requirement, so every Mentor can fill any role required by new players, so that if you pop into the Mentor Roulette as a tank or healer, you can provide some basic advice for the other roles in the party, that people are hung up on the Job requirements when leveling is the easiest thing ever astound me...). It's an absolutely absurd notion that we should turn away helpful people if they can't beat some arbitrary trial which has nothing to do with Mentors. You do not need to be clearing Thordan (Extreme) to the best of your ability in order to help some new player get through Aurum Vale...

[Toguro]

Why do people keep thinking Mentors are meant to somehow fix Lv60 problems? That is entirely what Stone, Sky, Sea is for. That is the content that is meant to improve Lv60 players, the problem there being that it is entirely optional, so every terrible player is just going to continue being terrible by ignoring it (hopefully SE does the right thing and adapts it to design solo Trials for something like the Relic questline, which can force "Git Gud" on scrubs).

Because you need lv60 to help lv5 players learn and 1,000 dungeons to fully ensure you know the mechanics of Sastasha and Tam-Tara Deepcroft

You do not need to be clearing Thordan (Extreme) to the best of your ability in order to help some new player get through Aurum Vale...

Doing 1,000 dungeons/trials to help some new player through Aurum Vale is equally as absurd.

[Chiramu]

The cynicism is strong in this thread. Have a more positive attitude seriously, if you don't think people will be nice then be the one to be nice. Be the one to help people and stop being so damn negative.