3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

[Februs]

During the Letter from the Producer LIVE, we mentioned that only the opposing team can pick up medals that are dropped from your teammates. However, in situations where the medals are not picked up within a certain amount of time, then they will be returned to their owner.

Very interesting. So, basically, we have a limited amount of time to collect on our kill credits ... I was already picturing a mad scramble to scrap over fallen medals, but this makes it much more urgent. It should also open up some fun tactical scenarios, such as using medals as bait (beware of ninjas).

That said, I'm very curious as to how long the interaction bar is. Is it fast? Is it slow? Does the time required to interact with the medals vary depending on the number of medals you are picking up? Can the interaction bar be interrupted (I'm assuming yes, for this one)? If yes, does interruptions work the same way as they do in PvE, and is the players defense taken into account? (ie: does a tank have better odds of picking up a medal uninterrupted than, say, a healer?)

As The Feast will be played with an item level sync it will be treated the same as Seal Rock, where morale and the effects of materia will not be taken into account. Additionally, in order to open it up to a wider range of players, consumable items such as food and potions cannot be used.

I assumed that this was the case ... It's a very disappointing decision though. I was at least was hoping that the Ranked versions of the game mode would utilize the PvP morale system and materia to increase the level of competition among the more hardcore PvP'ers. Considering the PvP armour does not provide a substantial advantage over the average PvE set (even without the level sync), it's kind of sad that the PvP'ers won't get to use the gear that they worked so hard for, especially considering that the average item level of PvE gear sets is equivalent to the PvP sets.

[Pomelo]

When are Morale and PVP materia going to be removed from the game? It's pretty clear that there is no intention of ever using them again.

Basically this lol

[Februs]

wait so theres no ranking for 8 vs 8?? reason i like frontlines is because theres more people to fight lol
seems kinda wierd they would even have a 8 vs 8 mode if not gonna have rankings for it = =

Yes and no.

From what I've read so far, the 8 vs. 8 game mode seems to be directed at the more casual audience of PvP (ie: the people who prefer the more relaxed environment of Frontlines). Keeping it un-ranked provides an area for casual players to enjoy the game mode without having to get stomped on by players who are decidedly more invested in victory. For example, in Frontlines hardcore players and casual players can Q together. So, there are times when you get matches in which a full pre-made is going against a full-group of randoms. It's not fair, and more often than not, the randoms get stomped on (there are exceptions, obviously).

The same thing often happens in the Wolves Den game mode during Friday Night Fights. Everyone is supposed to Q up solo, but there are always a few who Q up as a group of 2 or 3. They're basically stacking the deck, and when they run across a full group or randoms it is an incredibly unfair match. Having the 8 vs. 8 mode be ranked would allow for this to happen in Feast as well, and you would end up with some people skyrocketing up to the top of the rankings by hunting PuGs with a Pre-made. The only way to avoid it would be to restrict the Q to be solo only, but then you'd have the other side of the argument in which casual players would not be allowed to Q up with their friends to play. The GC restrictions caused the same problem in FL, and a lot of people refuse to play it simply because they can't play it with their friends.

Another issue is Tome hunting. In FL, because there are no Ranked/Un-ranked game modes, Tome hunting players are put into the pot with people who actually care about winning. You end up with teams in which some people are actually trying to win the match and maintain a somewhat decent winning record, and some people are only there to smell the flowers and collect their paycheck. That's not fair to the people who take it seriously.

I agree that it sucks that the bigger game mode is un-ranked and that our wins in it won't count to our overall performance, but, honestly, it keeping it un-ranked is the only way to keep it fair for everyone. My only real concern over it is how much it will divide the player base, and how that will effect Q times.

[Spawnie]

Yes and no.

From what I've read so far, the 8 vs. 8 game mode seems to be directed at the more casual audience of PvP (ie: the people who prefer the more relaxed environment of Frontlines).

meh wasnt looking forward to this to begin with since will kill frontlines queue times...probably wont even try it nows after reading that lol ._. i found wolves den boring small arena and only 4 vs 4.. b4 i started playin ff14 in beta i came from games that had full on wars sometimes had 100 people attacking your territory and were forced to make alliances with guilds from your faction to stand a chance of keeping the territory for the week honestly it seems like they have no idea what to do for pvp lol

they should just make 8 vs 8 only queueable solo problem solved :3

[Cynric]

I feel like my stock of PVP materia will never be used =/

Goodbye Stun and sleep resistance I'll miss you.

I think I have to agree we should just get rid of morale and pvp materia if they're never going to be used.

[DukeGr]

Why not remove stats entirely from the game since they mostly do nothing (except for main stats). While you're at it remove all classes also since all need to be exactly the same so its balanced. Lastly why even have items? Just make it all cosmetic and make it a vertical stat upgrade per level.

Seems to me they are dumbing down every aspect of customization to make things "fair". Is this still an MMO-"RPG" or did i miss the memo?

[Nalien]

Entirely off topic, but...

Why not remove stats entirely from the game since they mostly do nothing (except for main stats).

Not from the game, but they certainly should remove stats from gear at this point... Gear is already purely cosmetic in this game, unless you're doing the 1% of content that might require you to be well geared, that is... Even then, that's generally just a matter of chasing Item Level... A system by which your stats increase from doing content would be a lot better for the long term of this game... Nobody does Crystal Tower anymore; That gear is worthless outside vanity. If, instead of gear providing stats though, we had a system by which we get a permanent stat boost from doing content, Crystal Tower would still be completely relevant, depending on how the system is worked (don't have a do once and done system, that would be irrelevant quickly). Rather than skipping over content and gear, everything would be relevant, because everything would provide a permanent stat boost to your character. You'd still do Crystal Tower, because you'd still want the stats boost provided there in. In a way that would just be reviving the old Physical Level, but with a bit of a twist, you don't raise it the same way you raise your regular level, you raise it doing content. Physical Level would then replace Item Level, except we wouldn't be able to skip Physical Levels.

Make that expansive enough, and there is no less customization in the game than any other old RPG... All old RPGs hit a point where you maxed everything out, XIV would be the same, the customization comes in the journey, not the destination; Which stats you prioritize and when. Do you jump straight into raids to raise your primary stat and quickly raise your Physical Level, or do you concentrate on the easy/quick content to raise secondary stats? Something like Void Ark then becomes the catch-up content it's meant to be. I had i200 already, Void Ark was worthless to me. If, instead, doing Void Ark was raising my Physical Level to the same point (or close) everyone who'd already done Alexander had reached, then it makes Alexander easier. Meanwhile people who've already done Alexander are popping into Void Ark to raise the Physical Level further in preparation for the next Alexander raid. I mean, something like Bismarck (Extreme) was completely irrelevant at launch, do once for Ravana (Extreme) and now you don't even need to do that... If it was worth 2 Physical Levels worth of stat boosts though? Completely relevant.

As far as PvP goes... I don't get the need for gear to do anything... It's an advantage, no matter how small it may be... Matches should be balanced, all you achieve by making unbalanced matches is a situation in which new players cannot jump in... If a new player had to grind to PvP Rank 50 in order to wear the Lv60 PvP stuff to be competitive in Feast, then they're not going to be able to join Feast right away, and that's shitty. The rewards for PvP are cosmetic, and always should be. We earn the right to show off that we can equip that gear, granted the existing gear is terrible for this (while the new Seasonal Ranking stuff is far better). I don't know about anyone else, but I PvP because it's fun, not so I can gain an advantage over anyone else... I don't want a situation where someone beat me because they had Sleep Resistance Materia and I didn't, I want a situation where someone beat me because they out played me. Then out playing them is what motivates me to come back, gear/stat/consumable/etc. advantages just mess things up IMO. If I wanted to grind gear to be at the top of my game, I'd be playing PvE content. PvP is about exactly that; Player versus Player, not Player As stats versus Player Bs stats.

[Februs]

meh wasnt looking forward to this to begin with since will kill frontlines queue times...probably wont even try it nows after reading that lol ._. i found wolves den boring small arena and only 4 vs 4.

SE has definitely struggled with PvP. Honestly, they just haven't given it the amount of time and effort it requires to make it successful, so it hasn't been. FFXIV really is a PvE oriented game, after all.

Personally, I have enjoyed what few WD matches I've gotten into. they are a bit repetitive, but the smaller game mode requires much more effort and skill. Tactics and group composition are much more important than in the 72 man gank-spanks, so I prefer it. The competition feels more intense. I get that it's not for everyone, though.

That said, Feast and WD are not the same. Feast is objective based. It's not just a death match. WD might not be your thing, but I wouldn't judge Feast based off of that game mode.

they should just make 8 vs 8 only queueable solo problem solved :3

Then you'd have the same problem that people had with GC restrictions. You could not Q up with friends. People would complain that the casual version is too restrictive, because they want to Q up with their buddies.

[Spawnie]

SE has definitely struggled with PvP. Honestly, they just haven't given it the amount of time and effort it requires to make it successful, so it hasn't been. FFXIV really is a PvE oriented game, after all.

pvp in ff14 has potential they just need to stop addin new modes in the hopes it will "improve" queue times give it a month or so and feast will have the same problem as the rest of the pvp modes have ;/

[Februs]

pvp in ff14 has potential they just need to stop addin new modes in the hopes it will "improve" queue times give it a month or so and feast will have the same problem as the rest of the pvp modes have ;/

I'm still holding a candle that SE will (one day) bump up the level caps of Secure and Slaughter and include them in the Frontlines Roulette. I mean, they put the Roulette in the game, but it only cycles ONE game mode. That's just silly. It would make brilliant sense for them to have adjusted the other two game modes to be included and reduce Q lines.

I am also hoping that they will eventually bump up WD to lvl 60 and include Ranked versions that are compatible with Feast rankings. After that's done, I'd like to see ALL of these modes slotted into appropriate PvP Roulettes. Ideally, what I would eventually like to see in the DF is:

• Frontlines Roulette (Lvl 60 Secure, Slaughter, and Seize).
  
• PvP Roulette (Un-ranked. Would include WD, Feast, AND Frontlines. First come first serve ... would obviously work best if they removed GC restrictions, but we can only rub those two nickles so hard)
  
• PvP Roulette (Ranked. Would include WD and Feast ranked modes only. Solo and Party supported)

I wouldn't expect them to do this right away (though it would be nice), because they'll likely be focused with the successful launch of Feast first. That only makes sense, because it's smart to provide the best support possible to a new product at launch, instead of dividing your attention. This is especially true when your product is made for a more hardcore audience. Die-hard players are the ones who stick around the longest. Know your market, as they say. You don't give all your customer service to the guys and gals who only come around once in a while (which is one of the reasons why Frontline Q's always die shortly after their release. Casual players don't keep playing when there is other stuff to do).

That said, I would like to see it happen as early as Season 2 of Feast. Not only would it be a great boon to Q's overall, but it would appeal to ALL of the players to have roulette's which actually serve a function. Tome bonuses would bring in casual players. Hardcore players could hop lobbies easier when not running in a pre-made, and there would be greater variety in game modes to keep us interested, instead of running the same thing over and over. The only way that could get better is if they remove the GC restrictions ... but I wouldn't want to ask for too much ...