3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

[Februs]

wait so theres no ranking for 8 vs 8?? reason i like frontlines is because theres more people to fight lol
seems kinda wierd they would even have a 8 vs 8 mode if not gonna have rankings for it = =

Yes and no.

From what I've read so far, the 8 vs. 8 game mode seems to be directed at the more casual audience of PvP (ie: the people who prefer the more relaxed environment of Frontlines). Keeping it un-ranked provides an area for casual players to enjoy the game mode without having to get stomped on by players who are decidedly more invested in victory. For example, in Frontlines hardcore players and casual players can Q together. So, there are times when you get matches in which a full pre-made is going against a full-group of randoms. It's not fair, and more often than not, the randoms get stomped on (there are exceptions, obviously).

The same thing often happens in the Wolves Den game mode during Friday Night Fights. Everyone is supposed to Q up solo, but there are always a few who Q up as a group of 2 or 3. They're basically stacking the deck, and when they run across a full group or randoms it is an incredibly unfair match. Having the 8 vs. 8 mode be ranked would allow for this to happen in Feast as well, and you would end up with some people skyrocketing up to the top of the rankings by hunting PuGs with a Pre-made. The only way to avoid it would be to restrict the Q to be solo only, but then you'd have the other side of the argument in which casual players would not be allowed to Q up with their friends to play. The GC restrictions caused the same problem in FL, and a lot of people refuse to play it simply because they can't play it with their friends.

Another issue is Tome hunting. In FL, because there are no Ranked/Un-ranked game modes, Tome hunting players are put into the pot with people who actually care about winning. You end up with teams in which some people are actually trying to win the match and maintain a somewhat decent winning record, and some people are only there to smell the flowers and collect their paycheck. That's not fair to the people who take it seriously.

I agree that it sucks that the bigger game mode is un-ranked and that our wins in it won't count to our overall performance, but, honestly, it keeping it un-ranked is the only way to keep it fair for everyone. My only real concern over it is how much it will divide the player base, and how that will effect Q times.

[Spawnie]

Yes and no.

From what I've read so far, the 8 vs. 8 game mode seems to be directed at the more casual audience of PvP (ie: the people who prefer the more relaxed environment of Frontlines).

meh wasnt looking forward to this to begin with since will kill frontlines queue times...probably wont even try it nows after reading that lol ._. i found wolves den boring small arena and only 4 vs 4.. b4 i started playin ff14 in beta i came from games that had full on wars sometimes had 100 people attacking your territory and were forced to make alliances with guilds from your faction to stand a chance of keeping the territory for the week honestly it seems like they have no idea what to do for pvp lol

they should just make 8 vs 8 only queueable solo problem solved :3

[Februs]

meh wasnt looking forward to this to begin with since will kill frontlines queue times...probably wont even try it nows after reading that lol ._. i found wolves den boring small arena and only 4 vs 4.

SE has definitely struggled with PvP. Honestly, they just haven't given it the amount of time and effort it requires to make it successful, so it hasn't been. FFXIV really is a PvE oriented game, after all.

Personally, I have enjoyed what few WD matches I've gotten into. they are a bit repetitive, but the smaller game mode requires much more effort and skill. Tactics and group composition are much more important than in the 72 man gank-spanks, so I prefer it. The competition feels more intense. I get that it's not for everyone, though.

That said, Feast and WD are not the same. Feast is objective based. It's not just a death match. WD might not be your thing, but I wouldn't judge Feast based off of that game mode.

they should just make 8 vs 8 only queueable solo problem solved :3

Then you'd have the same problem that people had with GC restrictions. You could not Q up with friends. People would complain that the casual version is too restrictive, because they want to Q up with their buddies.

[Spawnie]

SE has definitely struggled with PvP. Honestly, they just haven't given it the amount of time and effort it requires to make it successful, so it hasn't been. FFXIV really is a PvE oriented game, after all.

pvp in ff14 has potential they just need to stop addin new modes in the hopes it will "improve" queue times give it a month or so and feast will have the same problem as the rest of the pvp modes have ;/

[Februs]

pvp in ff14 has potential they just need to stop addin new modes in the hopes it will "improve" queue times give it a month or so and feast will have the same problem as the rest of the pvp modes have ;/

I'm still holding a candle that SE will (one day) bump up the level caps of Secure and Slaughter and include them in the Frontlines Roulette. I mean, they put the Roulette in the game, but it only cycles ONE game mode. That's just silly. It would make brilliant sense for them to have adjusted the other two game modes to be included and reduce Q lines.

I am also hoping that they will eventually bump up WD to lvl 60 and include Ranked versions that are compatible with Feast rankings. After that's done, I'd like to see ALL of these modes slotted into appropriate PvP Roulettes. Ideally, what I would eventually like to see in the DF is:

• Frontlines Roulette (Lvl 60 Secure, Slaughter, and Seize).
  
• PvP Roulette (Un-ranked. Would include WD, Feast, AND Frontlines. First come first serve ... would obviously work best if they removed GC restrictions, but we can only rub those two nickles so hard)
  
• PvP Roulette (Ranked. Would include WD and Feast ranked modes only. Solo and Party supported)

I wouldn't expect them to do this right away (though it would be nice), because they'll likely be focused with the successful launch of Feast first. That only makes sense, because it's smart to provide the best support possible to a new product at launch, instead of dividing your attention. This is especially true when your product is made for a more hardcore audience. Die-hard players are the ones who stick around the longest. Know your market, as they say. You don't give all your customer service to the guys and gals who only come around once in a while (which is one of the reasons why Frontline Q's always die shortly after their release. Casual players don't keep playing when there is other stuff to do).

That said, I would like to see it happen as early as Season 2 of Feast. Not only would it be a great boon to Q's overall, but it would appeal to ALL of the players to have roulette's which actually serve a function. Tome bonuses would bring in casual players. Hardcore players could hop lobbies easier when not running in a pre-made, and there would be greater variety in game modes to keep us interested, instead of running the same thing over and over. The only way that could get better is if they remove the GC restrictions ... but I wouldn't want to ask for too much ...

[Guesswhat]

I'm still holding a candle that SE will (one day) bump up the level caps of Secure and Slaughter and include them in the Frontlines Roulette. I mean, they put the Roulette in the game, but it only cycles ONE game mode. That's just silly. It would make brilliant sense for them to have adjusted the other two game modes to be included and reduce Q lines.

? I still get Secure and Slaughter sometimes when I do roulette. And when it happens someone usually bitch about it haha. Frontline roulette is lvl 50; not 60.

[Februs]

? I still get Secure and Slaughter sometimes when I do roulette. And when it happens someone usually bitch about it haha. Frontline roulette is lvl 50; not 60.

You are a lucky person. Since the implementation of that roulette I have only ever gotten Seize. Regardless, that's not the point. The main idea is not just to have them included in the Roulette. It's to have them all at the same level to increase the the odds of a successful Q and provide variety in the PvP community.

The way it is now, the game modes are incompatible. Most people prefer to play at the level cap with all of their skills, so the vast majority of direct PvP Q's are for Seize. Lately, Secure and Slaughter have gained a bit more traction because people are trying to farm some poetics for that god awful relic, but Seize is still, by far, more populated. For this reason, the odds of the roulette placing you into Seize are substantially higher than getting placed into a Secure or Slaughter match. If SE raised the level cap of Secure and Slaughter (and adjusted rewards as necessary), this would not be the case. People would Q for the game mode they want to play, rather than the one that they have been pigeon holed into by the level and tome restrictions. Instead of cluttering everyone into a single game mode, there would be a variety. The roulette would fill the blanks (as it should), and the Q line would flow a little easier.

Of course, this would still only be a band-aid fix. If they truly wanted to fix the PvP Q's for Frontlines they would raise the level cap and remove GC restrictions. A casual game mode really should have unrestricted access if they want it to be successful. That means a shared level cap across all three game modes, no party restrictions (GC or otherwise), and a roulette to fill parties as fast as possible. Right now, we only have a roulette that serves almost no function, slots most players into a single game mode, and can often be slower than directly Q'ing for the game mode you want to play.