Don't be "that DPS"

[Februs]

This happens before the pull has settled.

I can sympathize with this, even if just from more of any annoyance stand point. Dps can go AoE crazy or focus down targets all they want when I'm stopped and running my own rotation, but it's a different story if I haven't finished the pull yet.

It can happen when a tank is approaching a pull with 2 or more sets. 9 times out of 10, this usually goes just fine, because most Dps are considerate enough to wait for the Tank to actually complete their pull before they start the heavy metal music. Unfortunately, sometimes you run into this one Dps who insists on going balls to the walls on the first target you touched before everything is in position. Instead of a nice, clean, efficient, and fast pull, you end up with the tank running to the next set, the mob chasing the tank, and "that dps" chasing the mob while they desperately try to upkeep their dps (which they typically fail at). If they pull hate, then the Tank has to turn the whole train around just to go backwards to save the squishy idiot who couldn't wait 2 seconds for you to settle everything into a nice orderly pile.

The absolute worst cases of this are when the Dps in question stuns the mob you touched. You end up getting to the end of the pull, got everyone nice and lined up, and you're about to pop CoS .... and then you see that one mob way back in the distance who's still trying to catch up with the group cuz someone stunned him.

Why do they do this? I dunno. It doesn't increase dps (it actually lowers it since it's unlikely they'll score positoinals or AoE's on a moving set of mobs), it doesn't work for the other dps (since mobs that are out of place get missed for AoE's), it hurt's the healers Mp pool (since a longer, less efficient, pull = more healing required), and reduces Tank enmity and mitigation (for the same reason that the healer's mp pool suffers).

Thankfully, this is a rare flower in the garden of Dps players. I get players who apply DoT's and get the odd hit off on in-progress pulls all the time, but that special snowflake who thinks that it's a good idea to go throttle to the max before the tank has stopped moving is not as common. It's just a little irritating when you see that kind of short-sighted behavior, and not just to the tank (I've seen a smn bitch at a Mnk who did this, because their AoE's were consistently missing the targets he was pulling out of the group).

[AskaRay]

Let em have it.

It's not like they're going to start AoEing. No amount of Provoke is going to save them from themselves.

I don't know
There are times when the tank stops, and so I shoot but then suddenly they're possessed to keep running.... so I run the mob over to them when they finally stop FOR REAL. I certainly am not attacking that stray mob since I don't want it.

[RiisWolf]

In fact, I believe he even gave a BETTER alternative to how to hold at the start, which required less flash spamming as you stated you would continue that combo above indefinitely until the mob dies.

Do you know what a fallacy, emphasizing, exaggeration, and moderation are?

Clearly there is some part of this you do not understand.

Fallacy: Attacking me rather than only my argument. Jumping to extreme nobody said. I never said do no damage, I even said it in

No. It's not healthy to do absolutely no damage. It's not healthy to obsess over doing more damage while ignoring the weaknesses the job has that prevents you from doing as much as others.

It is different from me calling you out on it because you really aren't paying attention.

Exaggeration: Yes, I said Strike and Flash five times, but where in that did I say to do that constantly or any specific number?

Emphasis: Before you say constant stream of threat and blinds. That is refering to Sheild lob>circle of scorn>flash>fast blade>Flash>Savage blade>Flash>Rage of Halone. Threat>threat>threat>normal>threat>threat>threat>threat. What part of that did you fail to comprehend?

Moderation: Yes, I said Strike and Flash five times, exaggeration aside, are serious!? You really think I implied do that indefinitely? It is as simple as that. There is a point to stop. I feel like I am talking to a stupid person having to NEED to say in moderation, but apparently I put too much faith in some of those reading this.

Also I have already said what happens when you fail to establish threat on all targets, I do not need to again. You can flash after spending all of 7.5 seconds not doing so at all to get ONE thing at a time which reduces the damage on only the one you applied it to, and let any good DPS who AoEs or is not attacking your target will take control in less than 5 seconds. And if you honestly believe that weaving flash is enough to make you lose control of your main target, assuming you did not switch at all, then it is you who has problems.

Remember, Rage of Halone gets only one, which already takes 5 seconds to get to, flash gets all those near, which you can use between combos.

Your reply to me is inconsistent and full of a lot of assumptions. I never said Flash all powerful, and I never said threat was the tanks' ONLY responsibility, I said

Hate is the tank's responsibility.

If you spent less time twisting what I say to make yourself seem like you had some clue, then you would have gotten that. I am not going to start on how going from, You're sitting there saying spamming our flash between every single hit is effective. It is not, to Yes, it's a DPS's job to burn down enemies, but there is indeed a reason why tanks don't all use flash and only flash. is just dumb.

Also to answer that: Please tell me how 5 seconds was so horrid now?
But first. .. to Februs never said you couldn't use an AoE at the start of a pull to gain hate on everything.
Februs is just another thoughtless troll aiming to fight/insult me, twist arguments in his favor and say nothing right while being in his magical wonderland where you DON'T USE SHEILD LOB>CIRCLE OF SCORN ON EVERYTHING! But since you wanna all confused at the slightest thing I say. You start by using Shield Lob then Circle of Scorn on everything. The only time you do not do that is vs an add like the spiny plume or adds you want to keep asleep/bound, or for whatever reason you were in melee range already in which case do not use shield lob. You always start at a distance. That easily is the single most thoughtless thing I would be putting up with if I was not already ignoring him.

Second) 5 seconds is actually more than enough time to lose threat on anything you are not directly attacking. I do not need to say it again. But by the time you get done with shield lob>circle of scorn>flash. Somebody would have already busted out AoEs, buffs, debuffs, DoTs and threat onto more than one enemy. That is not to mention someone not attacking your target all together.

This includes: cards, buffs, healing, barriers, HoTs, gravity, areo3, holy, assize, pet cleave, swiftcast shadow flare, foe requiem, flaming arrow, rain of death, Bishop, tri-disaster+bane, painflare, Tridisaster+bane+painflare+fester+DTW+deathflare, Enkindle, thunder+thundercloud/swiftcast thunder on others, dragonfire dive, Geirskogul, shoulder charge into elixir field and/or howling fist, arm of the destroyer, rockbreaker, haton, doton.

I am not going to tell you what the follow-ups could POSSIBLY be.

Third) While you go on with fast blade>savage blade>Rage of Halone. You can enjoy the zero threat you are applying to anything you are not targeting as the others proceed to melt the entire mob as the healer heals you. Especially if you have the fortune of getting a DPS who actually knows how to kill all enemies fast (does not matter how), which many DPS do not know how to do.

Four) Simple fact of the matter is that because blind is random and makes literal zeros. You cannot know if using flash later will make you take less damage or using it sooner. You will most likely take more damage by not applying the blind at all. By most likely, the enemies may still hit you everytime, and also for that last bit alone is why you do not consider the DR blind has if you are considering using it a fourth time.

Five) Bravo for doing more damage, did you keep agro? Better not be a no because then you are not going it right.

Lastly) Again if you think that weaving flash at all is going to hurt your agro on a single target among others, assuming you did not switch targets to spread single target threat/damage, then it is just you with the problem.

Go back read and really read. Less preconceived garbage. No more fallacies. No more idealism on what should what work over what ACTUALLY works. No DPS meta. Keep it real.
Or don't. I am pretty much done with you just so I do not waste my time finding out what other thing is you failed to understand for the third time

[Malicewolf]

By the way, as a main tank player in this game. It's easy. All you have to do is strike and flash, strike and flash, strike and flash, strike and flash, strike and flash. Flash does not interrupt combos, so it is a constant stream of threat and blinds. None of this complicated fake junk that the meta might have you believe.

The above implies that this is all that is needed. If you're going to do the above, you are being ineffective. As you stated you were exaggerating, I was exaggerating as well by saying, "you might as well not attack and just spam flash".

And though you keep saying Februs and I are "attacking" you, it's actually the other way around (well, ok, maybe I attacked you first, but that's cause you spouted non sense on a perfectly legit answer from Februs). You seem to be fine providing MORE than enough details to defend yourself, but lack having it when making your initial point. Which is why people like Februs and I chime in to begin with. You can't go, "I said this, but I meant that!" and then when we say, hey, "this" is wrong, "that" would work better" you come back with "I didn't realize you were stupid". No. We're not. You were lacking details, while spouting off other things, such as the 1st quote i posted above.

As I stated before, I don't necessarily disagree with some of the statements you're making. But some others are simply flawed. Especially the one's you spat out towards Februs. What he stated was simply a better way. Not the "parsers way" or w/e you had initially called it.

I seldom lose hate on mobs. If I do, I almost immediately grab it back before it even hits someone. I do not spam flash between every attack and I hold large mob pulls just fine. I get my necessary flashes to grab the mob and establish a lead, then I do my rotation while cycling through the mob to ensure I stay ahead of the DPS. It's fairly easy to see which one's hp are dropping faster, that's usually a good place to look first.

Anywho, as you stated as well, I'm done with this particular argument. It's obvious you didn't "mean" what you stated when making the original statement that Februs and myself are poking at. There's really no point in continuing to poke at it. Even you admit it's not what you would do. But your original statement was stating "it's easy to keep aggro". Aggro is to be held until a mob is dead. Not for the 1st 5 moves and then it's free game to do w/e. Managing the mobs well is more effective than the spamming flash method. I don't think I've seen a single tank do the below, nor do I believe I would ever find one that would say, "yea, that's a good enmity rotation". You'd maybe get a, "uh, ya. I guess that'd hold. Odd, but it'd work."

Moderation: Yes, I said Strike and Flash five times, exaggeration aside, are serious!? You really think I implied do that indefinitely? It is as simple as that. There is a point to stop. I feel like I am talking to a stupid person having to NEED to say in moderation, but apparently I put too much faith in some of those reading this.

[Almalexia]

I don't know
There are times when the tank stops, and so I shoot but then suddenly they're possessed to keep running.... so I run the mob over to them when they finally stop FOR REAL. I certainly am not attacking that stray mob since I don't want it.

That's your call if you want to escort a rogue mob over to my mosh pit. Once I vokeahawk, I'm expecting it to be in the next overpower cone. If some folks would rather play tug-of-war while the server finishes tabulating enmity on its abacus, I'll let them win every time.

[Syzygian]

.... and then you see that one mob way back in the distance who's still trying to catch up with the group

Oh god. The worst, most frustrating thing ever.

And here I am with this work of art, this beautiful stained-glass-window of a pull just waiting to be gloriously AoE'd to holy-mother-of-hell-and-back-again, and now I've gotta step over it, shattering it, to babysit a childish, impatient DPS.

There's a special place in hell for people that rob a DRK of his Sea Urchin spam like that.

[Ossom]

That's your call if you want to escort a rogue mob over to my mosh pit. Once I vokeahawk, I'm expecting it to be in the next overpower cone. If some folks would rather play tug-of-war while the server finishes tabulating enmity on its abacus, I'll let them win every time.

This is how I feel about dps checks, or even putting up DoTs. If the server, and by my extension my group expects me to perform a certain way then I'm just gonna let them win down every time.

oh wait..

[ChloeGrace]

Why do they do this?

DPS halp tank!

[Almalexia]

This is how I feel about dps checks, or even putting up DoTs. If the server, and by my extension my group expects me to perform a certain way then I'm just gonna let them win down every time.

oh wait..

My responsibility is to expend Provoke, Tomahawk and Overpower/combo into the loose target as it returns to me. This is sufficient in most cases, but not if you're jackhammering the same mob 15 yalms away and ignoring the 11 other targets I've neatly assembled for your AoEing pleasure.

I'm not going to move the entire mob cluster over to your punk ass because you won't press the tab key one time. You want that one mob so badly? It's yours.

[Februs]

Oh god. The worst, most frustrating thing ever.

And here I am with this work of art, this beautiful stained-glass-window of a pull just waiting to be gloriously AoE'd to holy-mother-of-hell-and-back-again, and now I've gotta step over it, shattering it, to babysit a childish, impatient DPS.

There's a special place in hell for people that rob a DRK of his Sea Urchin spam like that.

I could not have said it better. Cheers.