If tank damage is now based on VIT, why do healers still have Cleric Stance?

[Vlady]

This is just another turning of the wheel of letting Final Fantasy 14 become bland game number 3452938475983. If I wanted to play a game that was bland and had as little rpg elements as possible I would play a first person shooter. Multiple gear selections and gauging what was BIS and aquisition of said items use to be fun. But the trap that every modern mmo is falling into is replacing fun with simplistic number balancing. Yes I agree as long as they stick to the holy trinity format ff 14 is around then tanks should do as little dps as possible along with healers since that is not their job but all of that comes at the cost of fun in mechanics.

[CorbinDallas]

At this rate they should remove bonus stat points on level up completely and just tie them all to job crystals. They're shoehorning every job into 1 stat and 1 stat only. Let's be real, how many people actually stat anything other than their "main" stat? Piety is largely useless because gear has ass loads of it, and outside of raiding you rarely run dry if you have any idea what you're doing.

I won't even accept the "arcanist has 2 jobs and NEEDS to choose" argument either. If they just lump the bonus stats into job crystals that problem will be alleviated.

[Atoli]

Those who agree with the OP say "oh but there's a difference between tank and cleric stance because Cleric Stance adds risk and fun to the game and switching to DPS stance as a tank does nothing like that!", but that's only true when you and your healer outgear the content by a lot.
If you DON'T go do a large pull in a 145 dungeon in 210 gear but in actual 145-160 gear, you'll notice that, yes, dropping tank stance WILL make you as sturdy as cheap toiletpaper and one single GCD of the monsters you aggro'd will pretty much instantly kill you.
So don't go talking about how "risk and fun" are not there with tank's dps stance just because you outgear everything enough to never need to go back into tank stance anymore.
As a healer, when I outgear content enough, I also don't ever have to switch out of Cleric Stance, you know? So don't act as if there is such a huge difference between both role's stance dancing.

(That said, I'm also sad about the change because, while it makes sense and was overdue for a long time, it also takes away one of the last possibilities to CHOOSE which build you want to go for.)

[Ranzan]

It always strikes me as odd the conjurer spells are INT base but the class and job are MND base. It's like they are using black magic skills to do damage.

[DPZ2]

My point is more, does anyone feel like the *spirit* of what they did with folding all of Tank damage into VIT, compared with the existence of this mechanic for Healers, is something of a double standard? I sorta do.

I seriously doubt that SE designed cleric stance to enable 'stance dancing' in dungeon instances.

You, the healer, need to advance through the MSQ and FATEs just like everyone else in order to level. You are at a decided disadvantage when it comes to dealing damage, since you've been putting your points into a non-combat attribute. To accommodate the leveling experience, you can run around in the world without a damage penalty by using cleric stance.

Paladins also suffer a damage penalty. It is mitigated by the fact that they can outlast an enemy they are fighting because of their vitality and armor.

[Ultimatecalibur]

That...is not even close to accurate. Healer DPS in groups unitended? Really? You can't honestly think something so ridiculous, can you?

Yes, I can say that, because it has been said as such in various interviews with the Dev team. Healers DpSing in ARR content caught them off-guard. Level 50 Healer gear originally did not have accuracy on it as they did not expect healers to be make attacks and require accuracy to hit things. It was only added to i100 to i130 gear after healers started complaining about missing during Coil.

Healers have always been intended to do damage in ALL aspects of the game. They didn't give every healer class a new, higher potency filler move in heavensward for it to not be used. (Not to mention Aero III, Assize's ridiculous damage potential, etc..)

The healers received those new DpS moves to keep up with HW open world mob hp levels while soloing. The Dev team did not want the damage gap between DpS, Tanks and Healers to be so great as to force people to party in the open world while leveling.

And before someone jumps down my throat...intended=/=required.

Yes, intended does not mean required, but it does mean planned for.
Unintended does not mean bad nor unacceptable either. Healer DpS in party content was not planned for, but the Dev team accepted it and for the most part have not nerfed it. (Healer DpS in Cleric Stance was deemed unacceptable in PvP so Cleric Stance was disabled in PvP content)

[Andrea]

I seriously doubt that SE designed cleric stance to enable 'stance dancing' in dungeon instances.

I also seriously doubt that SE gave us so many DPS spells to 'solo' content.

If SE didn't expect people to use cleric stance to stance dance in dungeons and do DPS then they are without a doubt the dumbest developers ever.

Edit: can already tell this thread is going to turn into another - Healers should DPS/ Healers shouldn't do DPS.

[Riardon]

I don't understand that question and how it relates with cleric stance. The change to tank's calculation does not affect their stances. This was done in order tank to avoid using STR accss and put all their points into STR and play as DPS thing that they were never supposed to do. They will get the same dmg output since STR will count less for DPS now so they can focus on being real tanks without fear that they will hinder their dps. Stances are something different. Stances and tank dps calculation formula are completely unrelated.

[UBERHAXED]

At this rate they should remove bonus stat points on level up completely and just tie them all to job crystals. They're shoehorning every job into 1 stat and 1 stat only. Let's be real, how many people actually stat anything other than their "main" stat? Piety is largely useless because gear has ass loads of it, and outside of raiding you rarely run dry if you have any idea what you're doing.

I won't even accept the "arcanist has 2 jobs and NEEDS to choose" argument either. If they just lump the bonus stats into job crystals that problem will be alleviated.

To be fair, stats outside of raiding don't matter so the point about piety is moot.

[DPZ2]

I also seriously doubt that SE gave us so many DPS spells to 'solo' content.

If SE didn't expect people to use cleric stance to stance dance in dungeons and do DPS then they are without a doubt the dumbest developers ever.

Ummmm.. the entire 1-60 questing experience is one huge set of DPS tests. Without DPS spells, you could not level. Period. Of course they gave CNJ/WHM damage spells for this solo content.

That clever players found a use for this stance in dungeon instances was not intentional, but it is what it is. I have no opinion in the quarrel about its use.