Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Jynx]

Someone in another thread one day made a comparison about playing a soccer game.

The whole sports analogy falls flat. You wouldn't play soccer with Ski boots jim again would you?

The duty finder allows ski boots jim to do his thing. Grouping with unknown people who can't be held accountable for anything is the problem.

The Duty Finder and how content is designed around a no one left behind we all get gold stars mentality. Is the problem.

[DPZ2]

However, [you] need to accept the consequences of such a choice. This is a cooperative multiplayer game. If you make choices that deliberately make it harder for the rest of your team, they have every right to be mad about it.

From what I can tell, the original post was not about deliberately making it harder for the rest of the team, it was about <WARNING: extremely loose interpretation follows> "I noticed X and was fairly inept at my attempt to correct the problem because I was frustrated that the person wasn't giving it 100% like I require". [Being generous here, as the OP knew what he was saying ... and that has consequences as well].

Unless you are certain that another person in your group is deliberately messing around (not just sub-optimal according to your standards), you can be upset, you might even provide a few encouraging words. Venting might be therapeutic, but has consequences you may not yourself like.

[Kaurie]

The whole sports analogy falls flat. You wouldn't play soccer with Ski boots jim again would you?

The duty finder allows ski boots jim to do his thing. Grouping with unknown people who can't be held accountable for anything is the problem.

The Duty Finder and how content is designed around a no one left behind we all get gold stars mentality. Is the problem.

I am not sure about Soccer in other parts of the world, but in Canada when I was younger there were often 'drop-in' street hockey games. You'd just go out with your gear and play hockey and your neighbours would all start joining in. There was no pre-set group, and everyone around was welcome.

However, if someone showed up with a baseball bat and started whacking at the tennis ball (or whatever you played with) people would probably have been quite upset. Everyone who joined understood how to play and did their best to win with their randomized team. If only DF worked like this.

Note: I have no idea if these still happen, as I have been living in urban apartments and am a full-grown adult now. I'm sure kids do this though, it would be sad if they don't

[Alistaire]

I'd like to try to summarize this thread because last time I pulled this off the thread ended! (If anyone remembers "the arrogance of some people", this thread is basically a copy paste, except it's about DPS DPS instead of Healer DPS)

Nobody is saying you can't play how you want. If I want to go in a dungeon without a pet and spam adlo until I'm OOM and then stick my thumbs up my...erm, nose, for the rest of the pull, I have every right to choose to do that.

However, I need to accept the consequences of such a choice. This is a cooperative multiplayer game. If you make choices that deliberately make it harder for the rest of your team, they have every right to be mad about it. Some (like me) probably will roll their eyes and not say anything. However, some will ask if you know what you're doing. They may try to confirm you're not a bot. Some will offer you advice. Some will ask you what you think you're doing. Some will kick you out of the party.

Just as much as I have every right to play how I want, other people have every right to deal with that however they want to as well. And if you're going to choose to play without critical abilities, be it enochain, or healer dps, or popping CDs or whatever, that's fine but you at least need to OWN that choice and accept responsibility for the way the party reacts to it.

You can be a snowflake all you want, but you can't force other people to just deal with your snowflakiness. If you don't like the way people react to you only doing xx% of your job, then start at least trying to play 100% of your job.

I think I heard a mic drop. Well said.

[Kurogaea]

Yeah. To keep on the soccer analogy, it would be more like one of your team mate puts on ski boots and goes playing with that. Sure he'll play too. But he'll be slower and most likely be a hindrance to everyone else in his team. The ski boots guy is the player refusing to use 3.0 skills because "why bother", or the Ice mage, or whatnot. A guy not playing like he should to be efficient.

other analogies work too

Like sewing with mittens

If your analogy makes sense in relation to 14, then it'd sound like one dps player was somehow playing his game with oven mits, in which he would most likely hit everything but the right button he tries to press (god forbid he was on a keyboard, he wouldn't even be playing if that's the case). For the ski boots one.....what even??? It's not like we can be inflicted with heavy for the entire dungeon run (unless you mean lag then thats completely relatable), not to mention you can't do a single thing on a soccer field other than stand as goalie with ski boots and I doubt you'd block anything. In where a dps as an ice mage, can still do more damage than a summoner's pet.

No I'm not saying being an ice mage in a dungeon is ok (it'd be an obvious joke/troll move anyway if someone did that) and yes it would slow down the progress of a dungeon, but it wouldn't make the run un-finishable.

Anyways, I was not talking about troll/joke dps members before. I'm talking about dps doing slighty lower than their full potential. As if a monk doing an entire lvl 50 dungeon run without the fist of fire stance would legitimately slow down the run so badly that you have to point it out to them as it's ruining your experience with a dungeon you ran 50 times already?

[KaitlanKela]

snip

I don't think I encouraged being rude or venting. However, assuming it doesn't cross the line into harassment, it's not against the rules. I don't think OP did any harassing here. Was he as tactful as he could have been? Nope. If it was me would I have phrased it differently? Yes. However, did he have a right to say what he did? YES

And for the record, if the BLM started using enochain right after then the BRD and tank really blew this outta proportion. BRD offers advice, BLM take it well and tries to incorporated it. This, my friends, is the system working as intended.

Have I run into situations where I could tell the DPS was deliberately choosing to not try? Nope, but I've also never had to address it or kick anyone. There are plenty of people who have encountered the "I play my way" mentality and I was more addressing that concept as a whole, rather than specifically the OP.

[Saiah]

This is Saiah

Saiah has BLM to 60

Saiah doesnt know how to use her rotation effectively

Saiah doesnt feel like practicing on a dummy because she rather plays other jobs

Saiah doesnt do dungeons with BLM and waste other peoples time

Saiah is smart

Be like Saiah

[Cnidarian]

If your analogy makes sense in relation to 14, then it'd sound like one dps player was somehow playing his game with oven mits, in which he would most likely hit everything but the right button he tries to press (god forbid he was on a keyboard, he wouldn't even be playing if that's the case). For the ski boots one.....what even??? It's not like we can be inflicted with heavy for the entire dungeon run (unless you mean lag then thats completely relatable), not to mention you can't do a single thing on a soccer field other than stand as goalie with ski boots and I doubt you'd block anything. In where a dps as an ice mage, can still do more damage than a summoner's pet.

No I'm not saying being an ice mage in a dungeon is ok (it'd be an obvious joke/troll move anyway if someone did that) and yes it would slow down the progress of a dungeon, but it wouldn't make the run un-finishable.

Anyways, I was not talking about troll/joke dps members before. I'm talking about dps doing slighty lower than their full potential. As if a monk doing an entire lvl 50 dungeon run without the fist of fire stance would legitimately slow down the run so badly that you have to point it out to them as it's ruining your experience with a dungeon you ran 50 times already?

Since you want to take the analogy 100% literal (albeit extreme), it would be more in tune to playing professional soccer with tennis shoes on while everyone else is wearing cleats. Sure, you can still run around the field and kick the ball, but if there is any moisture on the field you will fall a lot and spend half the game on the ground. You also limit yourself in your maneuverability since you will not be able to take corners as tight due to not having sure footing. Overall, while you were still able to participate in the match, you really didn't contribute much and in some instances, you were most likely hindering your team (i.e. not being able to play defense properly because you fell on the ground).

[Andrea]

This is Saiah

Saiah has BLM to 60

Saiah doesnt know how to use her rotation effectively

Saiah doesnt feel like practicing on a dummy because she rather plays other jobs

Saiah doesnt do dungeons with BLM and waste other peoples time

Saiah is smart

Be like Saiah

I wish more people were like you Saiah.

[DPZ2]

snip

Can we lose the sports analogies? They really don't work well, since the structure behind performance in anything except a friendly game in the park is determined by a rigid set of rules enforced by a sports authority (the coach) with guidance from a rule-set that does not allow for deviation.

Video games, on the other hand, have no such requirements. Play styles differ, level of experience differs, and we all get to enjoy this wonderful game in our own way.

Some of those ways appear to make the Varsity Team players very sad. I think they'd just as soon see the game remain "pure" to their interests while it dies a well-deserved death.

I'll always play my best, but I don't even aspire to the Varsity Team.

< Dang, I blew it ... darn sports analogies ...>