Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Kaurie]

Yeah. To keep on the soccer analogy, it would be more like one of your team mate puts on ski boots and goes playing with that. Sure he'll play too. But he'll be slower and most likely be a hindrance to everyone else in his team. The ski boots guy is the player refusing to use 3.0 skills because "why bother", or the Ice mage, or whatnot. A guy not playing like he should to be efficient.

other analogies work too

Like sewing with mittens

Ski-boot soccer sounds like a horribly fun idea!
This also reminds me of the Bubble Soccer fad - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me1y78yMOSo It's great if everyone is on board, but if you showed up in one of those to a regular soccer game, people would be understandable confused/frustrated.

[whiskeybravo]

I think there was someone either in this thread or another that suggested a window that pops up at the end of a dungeon/raid much like at the end of a PvP Match. It tells you how much dmg each person took, how much dmg each person did, how much dmg the healer healed and did, etc.

I did a while back ago but people complained it wouldn't show real-time information, you know, the kind you need to call some out on the spot if they are doing bad.

[Andrea]

Last I checked, Dpsing of any kind mean your dpsing.

Well lets try to explain why people don't like those that use all their abilities.

Your job as a DPS isn't to do "DPSing any amount is fine" as you put it. Your job is to do as much DPS as you know you can do. AKA you try to do the most you can do.

No one is asking for savage level of DPS numbers but for someone to go into a dungeon and just do whatever because "they don't feel like using a skill" then thats just rude to the other people.

Again If im on scholar and my fairy can solo heal something, should I just stand around? after all Healing is my 'job' so as long as no one is dying by your description i can just afk and follow the tank while doing other stuff.

Also PS. There is a difference between trying to do as much as you can and just not bothering. Trying and not getting it right is fine, cause theres at least effort there. Not trying at all is not fair on the other people at all and you should be removed from the duty IMO.

[Whiteroom]

I did a while back ago but people complained it wouldn't show real-time information, you know, the kind you need to call some out on the spot if they are doing bad.

Or you know, it's harder to help them at the end of the dungeon, than in real time. But whatever floats your boat.

Also its a half measure if they are going to spend resources on making it, do the real thing.

[DPZ2]

other analogies work too

Neither of those analogies work at all, mainly because the player would need to have been given skis to play soccer in the first place. Same with the mittens.

There is no equivalent to 'skis' (an entirely different sport than soccer with a different set of gear) when comparing level 50 and level 60 skill sets in this game.

It might be like playing chess while missing a rook. Do-able, but not optimal. Problem there, of course, is there are plenty of chess games where that rook is never moved or used.

[Seryl199]

........You know I'm still wondering why people go to such extremes when one person doesn't use their full abilities while dpsing and somehow they're not following "rules". Last I checked, Dpsing of any kind mean your dpsing. Its not like they go into a dungeon without their soul stones and start casting cure, because that what it sounds like when people make up these analogies like the soccer one. These players really need to stop making their efficiency of playing "rules". They're not.

While I agree that the example might be a little over the top, it's still comparing team based activities. You're still relying on other people in certain positions (roles) to know their responsibility, know how to interact with their opponent, and understand how their position fits into the team's composition to make responding to the other team an efficient and coordinated matter. Having different levels of skill is to be expected, you are grouping with randoms, of course. But does the guy that walked the length of the field and kicked the ball a couple times still get a participation award? He does in every dungeon in FFXIV, as long as someone else, tank, healer, or second DPS, picks up his slack. There's no hard ruling against neglecting to try, but neither is it a standard that I would encourage to any player.

[Kuwagami]

snip

Wait, you took it wrong. It's not playing soccer with skis on, but only with the boots.
This
ski boots image

instead of this
soccer shoes image

Basically, a handicap. While I went a bit hardcore in the analogy (I could have used slippers, because not good to run with, or flip-flops, or anything else making it harder to run), the idea is here : you are less efficient at what you're doing due to your choice.

Ignore that. I misunderstood you

Ski-boot soccer sounds like a horribly fun idea!
This also reminds me of the Bubble Soccer fad - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me1y78yMOSo It's great if everyone is on board, but if you showed up in one of those to a regular soccer game, people would be understandable confused/frustrated.

I did it once, it's horrible >_> we ended up doing dodgeball instead because it was easier to play xD

[DPZ2]

Your job is to do as much DPS as you know you can do. AKA you try to do the most you can do.

And if you don't know how to do 'X' well, or think it is only situational, or you found that you were more consistent in a non-team environment doing something other than 'X', why would it be ok for someone to insult you when you don't meet their expectations of "the most you can do"?

If I see a green-leaf CNJ out there using the knock-back skill in Sastasha, I don't say "learn to play". I say "don't use that knock-back in dungeons, it moves the target out of reach of DPS and the tank". Once. I don't expect an answer.

If I see a new BLM in Fractal Continuum, with ilevel 145 gear, I do not expect them to perform as well as a level 60 BLM in Alexander gear. If they're not using an optimal rotation, I don't insult them before I offer advice.

Attitude tells all, even when expecting folks to do their best.

[Andrea]

Attitude tells all, even when expecting folks to do their best.

Where did I say it was ok to insult someone? If you notice someone isn't trying you ask them to try and give information. If they reply negatively ie "my sub I do what I want" or continue not even bothering then you just kick them. No insulting needed.

Also using the OPs photo as an example. How the hell is not even bothering to pop enochian "doing their best"?

Again, Trying and not doing as well as others is fine. Refusing to use skills because you don't want to even bother learning a new rotation is not and never will be despite how others may try to defend it.

[KaitlanKela]

I'd like to try to summarize this thread because last time I pulled this off the thread ended! (If anyone remembers "the arrogance of some people", this thread is basically a copy paste, except it's about DPS DPS instead of Healer DPS)

Nobody is saying you can't play how you want. If I want to go in a dungeon without a pet and spam adlo until I'm OOM and then stick my thumbs up my...erm, nose, for the rest of the pull, I have every right to choose to do that.

However, I need to accept the consequences of such a choice. This is a cooperative multiplayer game. If you make choices that deliberately make it harder for the rest of your team, they have every right to be mad about it. Some (like me) probably will roll their eyes and not say anything. However, some will ask if you know what you're doing. They may try to confirm you're not a bot. Some will offer you advice. Some will ask you what you think you're doing. Some will kick you out of the party.

Just as much as I have every right to play how I want, other people have every right to deal with that however they want to as well. And if you're going to choose to play without critical abilities, be it enochain, or healer dps, or popping CDs or whatever, that's fine but you at least need to OWN that choice and accept responsibility for the way the party reacts to it.

You can be a snowflake all you want, but you can't force other people to just deal with your snowflakiness. If you don't like the way people react to you only doing xx% of your job, then start at least trying to play 100% of your job.