How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[JackFross]

Are you sure about this o.0

It doesn't agree with Dervy's original analysis from the OP. Maybe you're calculating in some crit% that he didn't originally?

It would only be true for the opener. The difference between B and C is only one thing - you're trading the Impulse Drive and the second Heavy Thrust between the two skills. In B, ID gets B4B while HT gets BL. In C, it's the other way around. Since B4B is a bigger buff than BL, it would make sense that moving B4B to the stronger of the two hits (not including B4B/BL boosts) would be better than doing it vice versa. While it LOOKS like that initial ID is stronger than the second HT, it's not completely true that it is.

In the opener, that initial ID is:
180 x 1.15 = 207
Since it's up after HT, but before Dis hits.

Whereas the second HT is:
170 x 1.15 x 1.1 = 215.05
Since it gets both HT and the Dis buffs.


Though, this causes a point of confusion for me, since all of this stacked together should mean (based on what I'm seeing here) that this should be actually better than what's touted as the best opener:

HT>[IR>BL]>ID>[BotD>B4B]>Dis>[Pot]>CT>[Leg+PS]>4th>[Jump]>P>[DFD]>TT>[SSD]>VT>[gsk+Life]>FT>4th>HT

By approximately 9 potency (less than 1 pot per gcd). That's assuming IR falls off just before Vorpal Thrust, but catches the SSD. I don't like imagining a world where this might have been overlooked until now, and this DOES shift your B4B one gcd later than usual, which delays it going forward by that 1 gcd as well, but there's enough time in most every fight where you wanna hold B4B for 1-2 gcds for mechanics that this shouldn't make a realistic difference in the long run.

[MiniTyra]

HT>[IR>BL]>ID>[BotD>B4B]>Dis>[Pot]>CT>[Leg+PS]>4th>[Jump]>P>[DFD]>TT>[SSD]>VT>[gsk+Life]>FT>4th>HT

From Dervy ->

I might try this. This may be exactly what I were missing to really push the Dragoons min/max'd rotation to another level of insanity. 1650+ DPS 3min hype!

[whiskeybravo]

In the opener, that initial ID is:
180 x 1.15 = 207
Since it's up after HT, but before Dis hits.

Whereas the second HT is:
170 x 1.15 x 1.1 = 215.05
Since it gets both HT and the Dis buffs.

Yea, I guess it does work out to about 2 potency more once you make it back around. One concern, though, the second B4B usually comes off CD around a 4th/Phelb, at least for me, delaying one GCD in the opener would push it to not catch that phleb, so it would be better to hold it until VT.. So.. You're delaying first 2 B4Bs by around 3 or 4 GCDs. Surely that's more than 2 potency loss.

Just playing devil's advocate here :3

[Ninjah2r]

Anyone know what Dervy's new rotation is? He put up a vid a week back that he could parse 1633 with party buff + food (dunno which one) + pots.

(I tried with 1 star hq food hq drac str potions, and 2 asts + 1 ninja + 1 mch, which got me 1805 and 1826, so fun XD).

and my second question is, how do I calculate stat weights for lets say the thordan wep and the relic, so I can compare? I mean multiplying the numbers is easy and all, but how do I see what is better for future refs? Kinda want to calculate on my own lmao

ty!

[MiniTyra]

Anyone know what Dervy's new rotation is? He put up a vid a week back that he could parse 1633 with party buff + food (dunno which one) + pots.

(I tried with 1 star hq food hq drac str potions, and 2 asts + 1 ninja + 1 mch, which got me 1805 and 1826, so fun XD).

and my second question is, how do I calculate stat weights for lets say the thordan wep and the relic, so I can compare? I mean multiplying the numbers is easy and all, but how do I see what is better for future refs? Kinda want to calculate on my own lmao

ty!

(hi!)

The Rotation isn't just the opening burst. Well, sort of is. The opener, I've realised, allows you to perfectly execute a "string", where all of your oCDs flow near perfectly for optimal DPS. Things like, instead of doing IR -> BOTD, BOTD -> IR is used. BFB and IR are "held" a GCD to remove clipping and placed in positions which benefit other GCDs. Delays before Internal Release and Blood for Blood are calculated, so I can fit in as many oCDs as possible.


What's also interesting is that I'm able to actually get Jump to be buffed by every single BFB application used, granted, BFB is delayed and a Skillspeed of +670 is being used. The 3rd Jump/PS also isn't delayed!

Watch the video carefully from around... 1:10 ^^ (Or just before second BFB application)

Sunnys original analysis of his 900 CRT, 69X SS build is somewhat... True. Unfortunately, the weights do not demonstrate the true nature of Skillspeed as placement of oCDs and buffs are not taken into consideration in the far extreme values of SS/CRT. The weights are based off a static rotation, where X skill is buffed by Y skill at A time in the rotation. Not, "oh I have more SS now so this oCD can be buffed" etc etc. There's more to it than that... But sadly, the spreadsheets or the methodologies being used to calculate the weights can't correctly "weigh" SS dynamically.

I think 1650+ is possible. Some oCDs clipped my GCD and could of been used in more "efficient" places.

As for your second question, I don't know what you're asking. Are you asking for a set-builder? Or wondering how you can get the weights going into 3.2? Or what exactly?

[Ninjah2r]

@MiniTyra

thx for your reply, the new rotation sounds a bit difficult, think I'll wait for dervy's vid whenever that's up XD

And my 2nd question was like, let's say I want to compare weps, how do I calculate which wep is better?

[MiniTyra]

@MiniTyra

thx for your reply, the new rotation sounds a bit difficult, think I'll wait for dervy's vid whenever that's up XD

And my 2nd question was like, let's say I want to compare weps, how do I calculate which wep is better?

Maybe Dervy is haunting the forums.

Anyway, you just multiply the stats by the stat weights per weapon, then add them up.

Weapon with higher weight = better weapon, uusally.

[Ninjah2r]

Maybe Dervy is haunting the forums.

Anyway, you just multiply the stats by the stat weights per weapon, then add them up.

Weapon with higher weight = better weapon, uusally.

alright thanks dear lala

dervy, where are you D:

[Nominous]

(hi!)

The Rotation isn't just the opening burst. Well, sort of is. The opener, I've realised, allows you to perfectly execute a "string", where all of your oCDs flow near perfectly for optimal DPS. Things like, instead of doing IR -> BOTD, BOTD -> IR is used. BFB and IR are "held" a GCD to remove clipping and placed in positions which benefit other GCDs. Delays before Internal Release and Blood for Blood are calculated, so I can fit in as many oCDs as possible.

What's this new opener? Where is everything placed? Or is there a video, perhaps? It sounds like it's a bit more... forgiving when it comes to double weaving.

[JackFross]

What's this new opener? Where is everything placed? Or is there a video, perhaps? It sounds like it's a bit more... forgiving when it comes to double weaving.

It's not really new. It's the same as the one in the opening post, just with BotD and IR having their order swapped.
http://ffxivrotations.com/2qy - This is what he uses in the video.

Through my own theorycrafting a bit after that was mentioned, I found that this is technically higher opening burst.
http://ffxivrotations.com/2qz

The difference is minor/negligible. Important to note is that, with a 2.4 gcd, your Internal Release will pick up the gsk after Vorpal if you do gsk>life in the normal rotation (that is, IR>BotD) but it won't pick it up if you do life>gsk. The reason for Dervy's change is likely to shift Life Surge that second or so sooner to make things smoother in the long run while still maintaining IR buff on the gsk, since gsk is a flexible cooldown. He's doing insane levels of optimization to pull off an ideal rotation for maximum dps. That shift has absolutely no impact on the dps of the opener, but it has effects down the road.