Page 68 of 108 FirstFirst ... 18 58 66 67 68 69 70 78 ... LastLast
Results 671 to 680 of 1075
  1. #671
    Player
    Thunda_Cat_SMASH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,105
    Character
    Sylvana Tenebri
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 79
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea View Post
    .The game doesnt need to give you any item/tomes for it to reward speed. It automatically does by you finishing before less efficient people and doing other stuff while they are behind still.
    While this is true, dpsing as a healer always carries with it some form of risk. A wipe will always cause several minutes of lost time, which is infinitely more likely to happen with a healer that focuses on dps rather than a healer that focuses on healing with occasional DPS. On average, I'd say most dpsing healers see a wipe at least once an hour due to circumstances not entirely out of their own control.
    (3)

  2. #672
    Player Kaurie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    2,427
    Character
    Kaurie Lorhart
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwashi View Post
    snip
    Quote Originally Posted by Alahra View Post
    snip
    replied to you by editing my last post due to the 24 hour forum post limit.
    (0)

  3. #673
    Player
    Alahra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,798
    Character
    Alahra Valkhir
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaurie View Post
    Clearly the 2nd is better, as I believe most people advocating that Healers DPS have been alluding too.
    I think that's part of the issue with these discussions (similar things happen in discussions regarding tank DPS, too): this is often understood to be the case by those arguing for more DPS, but it's often lost in how heated the discussions become, and it leads to players believing that if they aren't DPSing for some particular period of time that they're bad—or framed differently, it pushes less savvy players to take on too much risk at the expense of proper caution.

    The increased emphasis on DPS cultivated by Heavensward has, honestly, made Duty Finder an absolute nightmare at times, as Duty Finder is invariably a place to exercise caution (at least until you're familiar with the capabilities of the unknowns that have been assigned to your group), but the "proper" way to play is to lean toward risk. Granted, I most often see the worst behavior in this regard from tanks (I swear, if I have to heal one more "never-uses-a-cooldown" STR tank...), but healers have a similar trade-off between risk and caution (it's just that theirs is more forgiving since it's based less on gear choice and more on proper ability usage, something that can be adjusted in situ the way it can't be for tank accessories).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaurie View Post
    I guess I have never thought about Risk vs Caution, I simply DPS and heal when required. I do this while trying to manage my MP. I know that as I am learning a dungeon or encounter, I will DPS less and slowly DPS more each time until I have hit my personal maximum potential.
    A lot of healers (and tanks) honestly don't in my experience. Even when players take care to express the need to become comfortable with content before DPSing on the forums, that message can get lost as it transmits through the various echelons of the playerbase in the game itself, in part because most of the game doesn't really have a tradeoff between risk and caution, so players tend to expect that there is one "right" way to play, when it's not necessarily that simple.

    It's easy for it to happen, too. It's easiest to illustrate (again) using tanks as an example: a new tank asks their FC, "Which is better for tanks, VIT or STR?" and they receive a simple, but basically true, answer of "STR is better." But a fresh tank, who isn't familiar with any of the level 60 dungeons, might actually want to use at least some VIT until they're over a certain HP threshold, or while they're learning the content, and so on. HW leveling dungeons are also tuned (it seems, from running them countless times) with higher tank damage, making VIT more useful (especially for newer tanks). But in my experience, the nuance doesn't often get expressed in the game itself (and most people get their information not from the forums but from people they know in the game).
    (3)
    Last edited by Alahra; 01-09-2016 at 08:57 AM.
    FFXIV/Glamour Blog
    http://www.fashionninjutsu.com/

  4. #674
    Player
    Reisui's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    95
    Character
    Reisui Aisu
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwashi View Post
    If you could have prevented a problem and chose not to, then the consequences of that problem are at least partially on you. It may be on others as well, if they also could have prevented the problem, but that doesn't take away your own part of the situation, and it's the healer's effectiveness that's under discussion in this thread. The most effective healer is the one who can keep everyone up even when everything goes south, not the one who can generally keep everyone up, but only so long as nothing goes wrong.
    Totally wrong, we can even say then that we always need to save the Limit Break for the heal, cuz we never know what happens...
    (3)

  5. #675
    Player
    Seoulstar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,177
    Character
    Suzuko Seki
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Out of all the mmo's i've played. This is the only one where it seems that healers get a lot of hate for doing something that really isn't meant for their roles. (It's a healer, not a DPS). Just worry about the healer keeping you alive, that's our job. Nothing more, if we wan't to DPS, we can. If we don't, then we truly don't have to. And no, that does not make the healer a lazy person. A lazy healer would be like a sch that goes afk letting their fairy heal the entire run while they have themselves set to follow someone. I'm just going to say this, if people want a healer to dps so badly, then roll a healer and do it yourself. If you don't want to..then why on earth are you forcing a healer to do something that even you don't want to do? It's interesting, people are going like the dps from a healer will determine if the party survives or not. If it does, I hate to say it. But the DPS is severely lacking.
    (4)

  6. #676
    Player
    Jatoi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Far, far away.
    Posts
    386
    Character
    Wren Snakelily
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    I do it when I see opportunities. Presence of Mind in tandem with it is great when you know the dungeon and whatnot so you can dole out some quick DPS that isn't just DoTs and it's CD isn't so bad.

    Much of it's anticipating what will happen next. I like to get a feel as to what kind of people I'll be dealing with when put in a random group so I don't start right off the bat with my DPSing. Much of it's predictive.

    But in a group that has bad DPS overall, a WHM isn't going to suddenly change the tides that much is certain.
    (0)

  7. #677
    Player
    RickXRolled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    204
    Character
    Ryan Norris
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Seoulstar View Post
    Out of all the mmo's i've played. This is the only one where it seems that healers get a lot of hate for doing something that really isn't meant for their roles. (It's a healer, not a DPS). Just worry about the healer keeping you alive, that's our job. Nothing more, if we wan't to DPS, we can. If we don't, then we truly don't have to. And no, that does not make the healer a lazy person. A lazy healer would be like a sch that goes afk letting their fairy heal the entire run while they have themselves set to follow someone. I'm just going to say this, if people want a healer to dps so badly, then roll a healer and do it yourself. If you don't want to..then why on earth are you forcing a healer to do something that even you don't want to do? It's interesting, people are going like the dps from a healer will determine if the party survives or not. If it does, I hate to say it. But the DPS is severely lacking.

    If you can do something to aid the group, but you won't do it because it's not your "job" you are indeed lazy. As a monk/drg my role is to dps as hard as I can, yet whenever I quee ravana ex I end up tanking the blinding blade with the mt to help since most ot's have no idea what blinding blade is. According to your logic, I should dps the manipulator in a4 and ignore the orbs, because tanking those is not my job.
    (4)

  8. #678
    Player
    Niwashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    5,248
    Character
    Y'kayah Tia
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaurie View Post
    Effectiveness
    Definition : the degree to which something is successful in producing a desired result; success.
    Once can interpret degree in a few ways. I would say that we have 2 main ones here: a) duty is completed/not completed and b) the time it takes to complete.
    That might be true if both of those were standard goals. For example, if a duty gave a base number of tomes just for completion, but then increased that in varying percentages according to how fast you finished, then I could agree with you. It doesn't. The biggest rewards in a duty generally comes from completing it. Other rewards come from killing mobs within it and opening loot chests. Bonuses that add to the completion reward can come from a variety of sources depending on the circumstances (roulette rewards, new player bonus, quests or other tasks that can be advanced by the duty, to name a few). But none of those things are time related.

    Now it's certainly true that many players like to go fast, and make that an additional personal goal. That's perfectly fine. It's also perfectly fine to tune your playstyle towards your own personal goals rather than just the standard ones. The only part that's not fine is when you start saying that other players can only be good by tuning their playstyle towards meeting your made-up goals which they likely don't even share.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kaurie View Post
    As degree is generally a word of scale, I would tend to think b) is more appropriate.
    Either can be scaled. When talking about a yes/no condition like whether the run succeeds, scaling it becomes a matter of looking at likelihoods. If skill A will increase the likelihood of success more than skill B, then skill A is more effective.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kaurie View Post
    As I mentioned in another post, we come from a capitalist economy, which generally considers progress and productivity to be better than the opposite. In this case, completing a dungeon in a faster time (more reward/time) is better.
    Faster isn't better just because you keep saying so. The capitalist argument would only go as far as indicating that maximizing your rewards is better. But see my first paragraph above. Time does not affect your rewards.

    The reason time usually gets incorporated into productivity in the real world is because of income/expense ratios. Lots of expenses keep recurring in time based intervals. Every month, you need to earn enough to cover a month's rent, a month's worth of food, a month's worth of utility bills, and so on. That's why the amount you can earn in a given period of time has a significance beyond just the amount you can earn for a given activity. But none of that applies in-game, because the game doesn't have time-based expenses. With no time based rewards and no time based expenses, time is simply not a factor in your in-game productivity.

    Sure, if you finish a run fast, you can start another run afterwards. But if you finish it slower, you can still start another run afterwards. There's no difference there. The dungeons aren't going anywhere. In fact, the only content in the game that ever goes away is festival quests, and those aren't repeatable anyway.
    (2)
    Last edited by Niwashi; 01-09-2016 at 10:21 AM.

  9. #679
    Player
    Seoulstar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,177
    Character
    Suzuko Seki
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RickXRolled View Post
    If you can do something to aid the group, but you won't do it because it's not your "job" you are indeed lazy. As a monk/drg my role is to dps as hard as I can, yet whenever I quee ravana ex I end up tanking the blinding blade with the mt to help since most ot's have no idea what blinding blade is. According to your logic, I should dps the manipulator in a4 and ignore the orbs, because tanking those is not my job.
    I think we both have different opinions as to what is and what isn't lazy. Anyways, as I've stated. If you want a healer to dps so badly, roll a healer and do it yourself.
    (1)

  10. #680
    Player
    RickXRolled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    204
    Character
    Ryan Norris
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Seoulstar View Post
    I think we both have different opinions as to what is and what isn't lazy. Anyways, as I've stated. If you want a healer to dps so badly, roll a healer and do it yourself.
    Been doing that since 2.0.
    (6)

Page 68 of 108 FirstFirst ... 18 58 66 67 68 69 70 78 ... LastLast