The arrogance of some people

[RiceisNice]

Because an astro using The Balance exclusively on a Black Mage with 3 other BRD's as DPS to constantly keep up Foe's Requiem in a fight like Faust where no movement is required is obviously indicative of a standard raid composition and not skewed towards the BLM's favor at all.

And just to add on, the clear time isnt any faster than what my raid usually brings. It's all on you for (uberhaxed) even bringing that up in the first place to show the 1.8k+ (which is completely saturated by blms no less, so I'm not even sure why this was done as a general remark) "good" dps.

It's applying the wrong circumstances to the wrong context, unless you honest-to-goodness expect people to consistently 1.5k on a regular basis outside of raids/non dummy.

[KaitlanKela]

snip

You can blame it all on game design and outgearing content all you want. That's missing the point.

The point is about risk/reward. Riskier playstyles pay off with faster clear times, regardless of gear (unless you wipe, but this whole discussion is about healers who are capable of DPSing safely and choose not to, as opposed to learning healers who can't, so we're assuming that case away with the premises of the conversation). More conservative playstyles will still get you the clear, but more slowly. If that's all you consider, then they two playstyles are basically interchangeable. I would still argue that healer DPS is preferred, but not so much to make the meta shun heal-only players like it totally does.

My point is that if you throw in the fact that healer dps is not mind-numbingly boring for two members of the party AND helps clear the dungeon faster, we now have a CLEAR winner to the point where the meta is against the alternative.

You complain that the players shouldn't have to MAKE a game fun. I disagree. It's an MMO and by that fact alone there are a virtually infinite amount of things you could do with your playtime, especially when you consider all the different approaches you could take. But if you tried to do them all you'd find some things are really AWESOME to you and some are crappy. It's up to YOU to find the activities and the playstyle that make it the most fun for you, since SE cannot cater to the whims of several hundred thousand people at once.

I will reiterate: play the way you want to to make it fun for you. I've said that all along. I will fight the people who say that you will always be kicked for it because actually that really only happens rarely and in the most difficult content. However, stop trying to tell people that both playstyles are equally valid because they are objectively and demonstrably not.

[Elazu]

As I said yesterday, whether the healer dps or not is irrelevant to me. However, if you ask my true opinion about it, I would answer by experience : I'm a vet tank, meaning I know how to survive tricky situations based my skills, my dodging, my mitigation ect. I'm not perfect, far from it since I can't make a run without a healer and dps. That's the basic of a dungeon group. Then again, I got to admit I died most of the time here, in FF14 than any other MMos before cuz of that new view of players who wants to force an obligation to healers to go DPS aswell. DPS ? Fine but I for one remember that I died many times cuz healers enjoyed and are more focused on dpsing than healing. They want to finish fast without taking others life in consideration : Egocentric people says I !

What is your point though? Bad healers should not be regarded as the standard to measure oneself against.

[KaitlanKela]

I for one remember that I died many times cuz healers enjoyed and are more focused on dpsing than healing. They want to finish fast without taking others life in consideration : Egocentric people says I !

Can we stop bringing bad healers into the conversation? If they can't dps and keep the tank up then they need to either practice their job and get better or pick up a dps class where they don't have to worry about keeping the tank up.

This conversation is about what the expectation is for a GOOD healer. It's obvious: keep the tank up, mitigate damage, purge the debuffs. If that only takes up 50% of your time, then you need to be contributing in some other way towards the group's goals. If you are not contributing half the time and letting your teammates do the work, that is the DEFINITION of a "carry", since that word gets thrown around so much nowadays. Someone who lets their group "carry" them and is okay with it should never be the standard by which good players are measured.

I honestly can't believe we're still having this conversation. There's no argument to be had.

[Tint]

I honestly can't believe we're still having this conversation. There's no argument to be had.

i already said on page.... uhm... 36 why this conversation will never end. even if this topic will die, there will be a new one next week...

it's just a huge self-congratulation of the healers who DPS

[Odett]

i already said on page.... uhm... 36 why this conversation will never end. even if this topic will die, there will be a new one next week...

it's just a huge self-congratulation of the healers who DPS

There's no argument to be had because for the 100th time, this game wasn't made for healers to be full-time healing yet people insist that it is, leading them to either overheal, or just stand there and don absolutely nothing during downtime.

[AlexanderThorolund]

There's no argument to be had because for the 100th time, this game wasn't made for healers to be full-time healing yet people insist that it is, leading them to either overheal, or just stand there and don absolutely nothing during downtime.

I wish there was something i could do more than just like this post. I wish we could import pictures into the game, i would frame it and put it up in the FC house.

[KaitlanKela]

i already said on page.... uhm... 36 why this conversation will never end. even if this topic will die, there will be a new one next week...

it's just a huge self-congratulation of the healers who DPS

Or it's just a huge justification for those who don't want to for whatever reason. Considering that they're generally started by people on the "not my job" side of the fence. If people come to counter that mentality with discussion they're doing a service to the meta by trying to improve the quality of healers in the game and trying to prevent the spread of misinformation.

If the healers-gon-heal team would just get the picture and stop making these threads, we'd stop answering them.

[Kaurie]

i already said on page.... uhm... 36 why this conversation will never end. even if this topic will die, there will be a new one next week...

it's just a huge self-congratulation of the healers who DPS

It won't die because it's fun to debate things. Ultimately, though, it really just comes down to good and bad players.

Good players do everything available in their toolkit to help their team achieve their goals. Tanks using CDs appropriately, Healers weaving in DPS, DPS weaving in utility.
Bad players do either the bare minimum of their role to clear the content, or attempt to use their entire toolkit with having no idea how to do it.

Personally, I prefer the latter half of the bad players, because at least they are trying to improve themselves.

[Tint]

There's no argument to be had because for the 100th time, this game wasn't made for healers to be full-time healing yet people insist that it is, leading them to either overheal, or just stand there and don absolutely nothing during downtime.

did i ever said anything else? i am dpsing on my healer, so i am one of the GOOD healers ( yay ^^/ ). and because there is no argument against this... WHY DO YOU HAVE TO REPEAT IT OVER MORE THAN 50 PAGES THAT HEALERS SHOULD DPS? just for self-congratulation... there is NO other reason.

i just don't like how much time we have to be in cleric since 3.0. this is a game design fail. we have different classes for a reason. there should be a use for all the healing spells and emergency buttons besides the emergencys we have created by ourself because of DPS.

today playing a healer is just a simple 3-button dps who can also heal. and not a healing class who can also dps... v.v/ so... is a dpsing healer... just a lazy dps? :x