The arrogance of some people

[Velox]

If it's in your tool kit it should be used.

If that is true, then I hope to God everyone in this thread jumps down MNK's throat for not using One-Ilm Punch...or the BLM's throat for not using Freeze, or the SMN for Tri-Bind.

Just a PSA, just because something exists doesn't mean it's automatically useful.


In regards to the topic at large, I pray SE disables Cleric Stance in instances...not because I don't want healer's to deal damage, but because it's time to put more pressure on the DPS to do their job. Right now, most of the time DPS will complain about a healer not attacking because their own DPS sucks so much they need to hide behind the healer doing 2x the work.

[Andrea]

In regards to the topic at large, I pray SE disables Cleric Stance in instances.

Unless they change the game completely then if they disable cleric stance it will make healers a snooze fest.

You dont need to be healing all the time as it is, if I can't dps as a healer what am I meant to do during that time? watch Netflix or something?

[Kaurie]

Do you also expect the DPS to throw heals too? If no then why do you expect healers to DPS?

Well that is a silly argument.
If a DPS healed, then the run would go slower and the group would be at a detriment. If the Healer DPS'd then the run would go faster and would be overall better for the group.
Do you ever ask your tank to stop attacking and just spam flash, because dealing damage is not his job? The idea is rather absurd.

As for me, well I never tell a healer off for DPSing, I just assume that they are either lazy or bad. It's possible they are neither, but that is all I think. I mean I probably equate it to a healer seeing a DPS never dodging AoE's, that DPS is probably lazy or bad.

[Skivvy]

Excuse me it is not being lazy. I took healer to heal not DPS. If I wanted to DPS I would play a DPS class. If I keep everyone alive then I am doing my job.

Do you also expect the DPS to throw heals too? If no then why do you expect healers to DPS?

Healers come with some attack spells built into the base class, and so I would say it's more a matter of just utilizing your skills as a healer. If a person isn't comfortable maintaining the party and DPSing, I do understand, but to completely go the "Nope! NO DPS FROM ME EVER" route is a bit silly.

In case this helps any discussion, no, I don't really raid. Void ark is the highest for me. I will always DPS where I can, otherwise I personally do get bored and feel lazy.

Do i expect other healers to do the same? Not really, but it does help to speed things up.

The only time I've been annoyed by someone not DPSing as a healer was in a Sastasha NM run. Instead of doing anything productive, he just let his fairy heal and was dancing/emoting almost the entire time. That is just a slap in the face.

[Adire]

Excuse me it is not being lazy. I took healer to heal not DPS. If I wanted to DPS I would play a DPS class. If I keep everyone alive then I am doing my job.

Do you also expect the DPS to throw heals too? If no then why do you expect healers to DPS?

Because DPS don't actually have any worthy healing skills and because there's rarely a time in the game where you can do too much DPS, however there are plenty of moments where you can do too much healing and have plenty of time to DPS.

[DarkmoonVael]

Excuse me it is not being lazy. I took healer to heal not DPS. If I wanted to DPS I would play a DPS class. If I keep everyone alive then I am doing my job.

Do you also expect the DPS to throw heals too? If no then why do you expect healers to DPS?

Also there is a balance to be considered here. If the dps are doing such a poor job, as a healer, your mana will suffer if you try to dps and heal too much. When things are taking such a long time to kill, the healing output is increased by the healer to compenstae for the additional damage the tank is taking through things not dying fast enough. In a situation like OP is talking about, its not really about should the healer dps or not but CAN the healer dps or not in this situation. It sound like healer dps wouldnt significantly speed up the mobs death enough due to bad dps outputting bad Dps.

However, it also depends on how much the tank was pulling. Small pulls taking forever to kill, the healer should dps. Large pulls taking forever to kill, its going to cause problems on healers mana (except SCH possible).

Thats said, as a healer i do as much dps as possible. I get bored if i dont.

[Kosmos992k]

Also there is a balance to be considered here. If the dps are doing such a poor job, as a healer, your mana will suffer if you try to dps and heal too much. When things are taking such a long time to kill, the healing output is increased by the healer to compenstae for the additional damage the tank is taking through things not dying fast enough.

This is a problem I have faced as PLD many times, when sub-par dps means adds take too long to die, and I take far more damage than I would with better DPS, and for a much longer time. That puts pressure on the healer's MP, as does the feequency with which the DPS players stand in stupid. Unless the 'nice to have' extra DPS that a healer can safely provide, offsets the lack of real DPS, it's not going to alter that situation. The healer wil OOM because of the duration of the fight and the MP spent on supplementting the DPS.

My problem with all of this expectation on healers is that, it shifts responsibility for DPS to healers who already have enough responsibility to handle. In end-game situations when there are tight DPS checks that either require truly optimal DPS play, or supplemental DPS from healers and stance dancing tanks, then yes the team will expect healer DPS, but that is a known requirement of that specific content, in that situation everyone is equally responsible for success. In normal, mainstream content though, dealing damage is the primary responsibility of the DPS, tanks incidentally will deal damage to generate hate, healer DPS is still relatively optional. If healer DPS makes a significant difference, it's because the damage dealers are doing poorly.

[AeraLure]

This is a problem I have faced as PLD many times, when sub-par dps means adds take too long to die, and I take far more damage than I would with better DPS, and for a much longer time. That puts pressure on the healer's MP, as does the feequency with which the DPS players stand in stupid. Unless the 'nice to have' extra DPS that a healer can safely provide, offsets the lack of real DPS, it's not going to alter that situation. The healer wil OOM because of the duration of the fight and the MP spent on supplementting the DPS.

That's just a gearing shortfall or inexperience on the healer's part (speaking only for WHM though, which is my main). You can heal and DPS all day as a WHM with select use of cheap heals (DS, Regen, Cure, Cure II) and do full time DPS. Trick is just alternating Shroud at the right time with Assize. When the one is down the other is coming back. Unless the DPS is way under, you're doing heals and DPS yourself, AND you have to do some ressing, you're not running out. You may need to occasionally back off on a rotation as Assize won't give you as much as Shroud, but you can keep it up. Finished Saints boss 3 just myself and Paladin when we lost the two DPS. You can go forever. Yeah, it won't be fast, but mana won't be a problem for an experienced WHM.

Again though, you get there with practice. A newer WHM won't be doing that. I didn't. Early on I held back on Shroud, healed too soon, didn't utilize Regen as much as I could. Divine Seal was a safety button. Cleric Stance was scary because it seemed like I was always needing Cure handy. We were all there once.

[Twilite]

Excuse me it is not being lazy. I took healer to heal not DPS. If I wanted to DPS I would play a DPS class. If I keep everyone alive then I am doing my job.

Do you also expect the DPS to throw heals too? If no then why do you expect healers to DPS?

Eh, if you have time to DPS, then it's only logical to do so. If you're just standing there doing nothing, and you will/do(happens to every healer), then you're actually slowing things down.

Let me say it again so you don't blow your chimney: If you have time to DPS. Then it's only logical to do so.

If you truly want to ONLY heal then fine. Frankly, I don't see it as lazy, but my point is you can do much more in those periods where no healing is needed/regen(or job version of this) is taking care of things.

[Tilgung]

Excuse me it is not being lazy. I took healer to heal not DPS. If I wanted to DPS I would play a DPS class. If I keep everyone alive then I am doing my job.

Do you also expect the DPS to throw heals too? If no then why do you expect healers to DPS?

I expect DPS (such as myself) and Tanks to use their self heals when they screw up a mechanic and take unnecessary damage.