The arrogance of some people

[Catwho]

I don't even think a healer needs to "full time" DPS. Just pop into Cleric's Stance and toss your DoTs on, then pop back out and continue curing. You've already sped up the fight by a few seconds that way, and the DoTs will do their job while you focus on curing.

If I'm in a cure-flurry situation on SCH where I won't be able to stance dance, I'll at least run in and drop a Miasma II on the mobs.

"Healers need to DPS" doesn't mean a healer is expected to stay in Cleric's full time and cast Stone II/III until the mob is dead. It means that if no one in the party is in desperate need of a cure, and you're picking your nose or checking your phone and only tossing a cure every 10 seconds, you could probably be doing more.

Even on AST I find the time to drop Combust/Combust II in between shuffling my cards and tossing cures.

[Alisa180]

I just want to know, in all honesty from the people defending Healers not using DPS in their downtime, would you still defend a tank who back tanked while using flash, not DPSing, or only using a single hate move even.

So long as they are holding hate successfully, I don't give a damn. But can you technically hold hate effectively like that?'

Maybe a Melee standing in an AoE that would otherwise force him to move out of range, so he can max out the dps, knowing healers are only healing and would be able to cure through it.

As someone else said, melee do this anyway.

Would you defend a Bard who only wanted to play the support side and purely sang songs without shooting or the other way around?

They wouldn't be doing their job if they aren't DPSing. So no, I wouldn't support this.

In any case, these are all false analogies. A healer's job is to keep everyone alive. They could not contribute a single bit of DPS, and still be achieving what they are intended and designed to do.

[Adire]

Excuse me it is not being lazy. I took healer to heal not DPS. If I wanted to DPS I would play a DPS class. If I keep everyone alive then I am doing my job.

Do you also expect the DPS to throw heals too? If no then why do you expect healers to DPS?

Because DPS don't actually have any worthy healing skills and because there's rarely a time in the game where you can do too much DPS, however there are plenty of moments where you can do too much healing and have plenty of time to DPS.

[UnstablePersonality]

Actually yes, DPS are expected to use their self-heal abilities whenever possible. SMNs are expected to toss Eye for and Eye on the tank when it's up, and Raise in the event that the healer is too busy. In an absolute disaster case, a BLM probably has Physick cross classed.

I once healed the party's way through the 2nd boss of Qarn as a paladin, after the healer died. (I mean, it's not like that boss can actually be tanked.)

We lost a healer once in Haukke manor because they were impatient and didn't want a full clear and me as BLM ended up healing the first boss just to keep some progress going while we waited for a healer.

[Aryalandi]

In any case, these are all false analogies. A healer's job is to keep everyone alive. They could not contribute a single bit of DPS, and still be achieving what they are intended and designed to do.

I'm sorry but...what? Um... x.x


People switch from healing to dps and back all the time without a single death happening, if that is not the case they are simply doing it wrong..

Also melee should /not/ intentionally stand in an aoe just because they know the healers will save them, that would be inefficient and take the healers eyes off of the tank which is selfish and possibly suicidal, i have literally never seen it happen before.

[KrenianKandos]

The amount of self-entitlement in this thread is absolutely mindboggling...

[SaitoHikari]

It's not so much arrogance rather than just simply trying to make things easier for everyone involved. Generally, there isn't that much need for full time healing unless the tank is doing a huge pull and not using their CDs. When that happens, even full time healing might not keep them up, and it'd be the tank's fault overall.

As a WHM, I give myself plenty of time to DPS by using Divine Seal + throwing Regen and Aslyum on the tank, using Eye for an Eye as well if it's an especially big pull. I might throw a Cure II to deal with the initial auto-attacks before going Holy -> Aero III -> Holy -> Assize, then either keep DPSing or switch back to heal depending on how the tank's doing. There are some situations where trying to kill the mobs ASAP would help more than simply healing, as running out of MP while too many mobs remain standing would basically spell disaster for the entire group.

Assize especially shouldn't be underestimated. No other class has such a high damaging huge AoE nuke. Using it during an add phase in a boss fight basically results in all the adds having halved HP, if not outright killed if you crit. It gives the DPS way more time to go back on wailing on the boss.

[HulveinBlitz]

Oh great, here we go again.

[AeraLure]

Correction: it's the norm at end-game, not in normal content. Time for you to adjust your expectations. Please do not continue to spread the end-game meta to normal content.

No, not really. It probably should not be the norm, but it nonetheless is. Most parties expect it now in all content. Just the way it is. Doesn't matter whether you have to or not to actually complete the content. You can, as a healer, only heal, but be expected to get some grief occasionally. And IME runs do go smoother and faster that way, which is nice, and why most people like it. If you aren't adept at it or don't wish to do it, my advice is to say so at the start of the run of running with strangers. This way there can be agreement on expectations right up front - or - new party formation, as needed, rather than doing this 1/3 of the way in.

[Kosmos992k]

Heaven forbid people try to get other people to improve.

If you are just healing and not DPSing in this game at all as a healer you must stand around an awful lot and not do anything.

I get that people may be new to healing, I get that people may not be as skilled at healing as some. But to stand around and not do anything just because "Herp a derp Im a healer, I only heal and not DPS" is the definition of being lazy.

You and others replying to me need to respond to what I said, not what you imagine I said, or want others to think I said.

I said nothing about not improving.I said nothing to suggest players should stand around and do nothing between heals if they feel they have the time and MP. I simply said that end-game meta has no place in regular content, and it truly doesn't. Healer DPS isn't going to take minutes off a run, it's just not that significant, so why stress so much about it?

Both you an Elazu apparently think that saying the end-game meta doesn't belong in regular content means I'm saying that mediocre play is OK, or that it's alright to do the bare minimum or worse. That's not what I am saying at all.

The end-game meta has no place in regular content.

However, in a team game, you have to work as a team. That means doing as much as you feel comfortable and able to do. For a healer, of course that means tossing out DoTs, Stone, or even Holy - IF there is time and you have MP to burn. However, team members should not be making demands of other players that they are uncomfortable with. It's not up to you to judge for another player whether they could, or should,have done more.

Unless someone is deliberately disrupting the run by deliberately playing sub-par, then you can't argue that they are intentionally wasting your time or hurting the group. All the arguments about wasting your time rely on a one way view of who's time or enjoyment matters. Both players have equal value in this regard. When you argue that another player must do something they are not comfortable with, you are placing your needs well above theirs.

As for this suggestion that this view means encouraging mediocrity, that's your twist on it, but it's not in fact true. Healers saying they do not want to play DPS, and if they did they'd have rolled as DPS doesn't mean that they will not throw out DoTs or that they will be mediocre; it simply means that they don't like to be told what to do. Guess what, nor do you, nor does anyone else. So thet's all stop trying to impose the end-game meta on people, and instead encourage better performance in a positive manner by offering praise and thanks when a player goes beyond the basics of their role. Believe it or not, positive reinforcement is far more effective than criticism.