Why is "It's something to do" apparently a valid defense?

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

*can't edit*
The problem is the ones who say they like it most of the time are saying "stop being negative, take a break"

And when you retaliate against that AT all. Suddenly they claim you're trying to silence THEM.

All I've ever argued was it's a valid thing to complain. And when I say that someone will respond "oh so I can't be positive?"

I think it depends on the criticism. If the criticism is "This takes too much effort, dumb it down for me" Then yeah, I'm going to start speaking up and telling the whiners to pipe down.

[Arashmin]

I don't think the crux of the argument though is that it takes too much effort, but that it's an effort not worth doing at this point. For the majority of the playerbase they're not going to be done this in a week, or even by 3.2. How does that make this any sort of viable content? And why keep designing things that only small portions of the playerbase are going to take to at the high end of development?

[Lambdafish]

I think it depends on the criticism. If the criticism is "This takes too much effort, dumb it down for me" Then yeah, I'm going to start speaking up and telling the whiners to pipe down.

For the most part though, thats not the case, the arguments have been that the content is bland, uninspiring and isn't much different from relic quests that we have already done, not to mention the complaints about the delay. Trust me, if I saw someone with the attitude that you pose, I'd be the first to call them out.

[Alahra]

doesn't learn from the old relics in the slightest

This at least is kind of an exaggeration. The Anima quest is improved in a number of ways compared to the ARR stages and even directly incorporated some feedback regarding the Atma stage into the early Animated stage. I talked about a number of the improvements that make the quest more player friendly a few posts back.

[RiceisNice]

This at least is kind of an exaggeration. The Anima quest is improved in a number of ways compared to the ARR stages and even directly incorporated some feedback regarding the Atma stage into the early Animated stage. I talked about a number of the improvements that make the quest more player friendly a few posts back.

It's a bit of both. I feel like they trimmed out the parts that were well received by the playerbase (such as the intial relic quest and practically everything attached to that) and tossed it aside in favor of systems that are rather less appealing (2.x content that doesn't encourage open-world liveliness), and while hitting the marks of areas that truly need addressing (like CT). Even if FATEs are good for leveling, it'll end up being dead again after the rush, same with alexander normal, at least if Garuda HM was anything to go by with nexus/zeta grinds.

[Alahra]

It's a bit of both. I feel like they trimmed out the parts that were well received by the playerbase (such as the intial relic quest and practically everything attached to that) and tossed it aside

It's a mix of both, yeah.

And they were going to disappoint some players no matter what. While I loved that Titan HM was part of the original 2.0 relic, I know several players that hated it. I also didn't like how short the Relic felt originally, as it made them ultimately feel "cheap" after I had one for every level 50 job, and it's as a result of feedback along those lines that we got the Relic+Zodiac extended grind in ARR and the present Anima questline.

The Relic 2.0 quest was not universally loved, so to say that they tossed out something "the players" liked is a bit inaccurate. Some players liked it, but enough other players didn't like it that they went in another direction.

[Lambdafish]

This at least is kind of an exaggeration. The Anima quest is improved in a number of ways compared to the ARR stages and even directly incorporated some feedback regarding the Atma stage into the early Animated stage. I talked about a number of the improvements that make the quest more player friendly a few posts back.

Thinking about it, you are right, I was more looking at phase 3, completely forgetting about the improvements to phase 1, I'll amend my comment because that was unfair of me to say.

[WinterLuna]

For the most part though, thats not the case, the arguments have been that the content is bland, uninspiring and doesn't learn from the old relics in the slightest, not to mention the complaints about the delay.

Then people need to present their arguments in this way and actually be constructive with what they're saying. From what I've seen, most people are mindlessly ranting, have some kind of issue with the players who enjoy the content and then finally realise if they're going to get anywhere they need to back up their argument, after already spouting about SE defenders and white knights. This isn't going to help their argument in any way. Of course it works both ways too and there's people with the opposite argument doing the same thing.

If people really thought about what they were saying before writing it, there would probably be a lot less drama going on.

[Kallera]

Then people need to present their arguments in this way and actually be constructive with what they're saying. From what I've seen, most people are mindlessly ranting, have some kind of issue with the players who enjoy the content and then finally realise if they're going to get anywhere they need to back up their argument, after already spouting about SE defenders and white knights. This isn't going to help their argument in any way. Of course it works both ways too and there's people with the opposite argument doing the same thing.

If people really thought about what they were saying before writing it, there would probably be a lot less drama going on.

You been going on about this slight against people that aren't even accusing you of white knighting for about 3 days. There have been numerous threads and posts here and in the quests forum discussing the relic quests' shortcomings in detailed fashion. All fully available for even you to discuss in. Self appointing yourself as mod and attempting to regulate behavior(in a biased fashion, at that) is not necessary.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

[WinterLuna]

You been going on about this slight against people that aren't even accusing you of white knighting for about 3 days. There have been numerous threads and posts here and in the quests forum discussing the relic quests' shortcomings in detailed fashion. All fully available for even you to discuss in. Self appointing yourself as mod and attempting to regulate behavior(in a biased fashion, at that) is not necessary.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Did I refer to anyone specifically? No. So unless you've read every single thread I've posted in and everyone's comments to me, don't assume nobody has said anything to me involving defending SE. I can quote people, if you like, so "people aren't even accusing you" is clearly a biased statement.

I also said "most." Yes, some are discussing constructively, others aren't. I also said that it works both ways, so calling me biased is also something you've made up. I'm not "appointing myself as mod" but defending myself and others who can't even make a statement without having others try to belittle them.

I say this because I've tried to have an intelligent debate with people and all I've got back is "how can you even defend SE?" " ^ look a white knight" "SE are insulting our intelligence" instead of debating back in the fashion you claim everyone to be doing.