Why is "It's something to do" apparently a valid defense?

[kog985]

I've not seen any argument from the "defenders" other than "I enjoy it, so there!", I've not seen any argument as to why they enjoy it. And if you're enjoying it so much... why arn't you in-game doing the "brand new, shiny interesting content"? Instead of lurking around in the forums telling people that their opinions are false and not worth anything? There shouldn't be a need for you to defend SE or the devteam, since they'll be able to see the actual numbers anyways, and if this "content" really is something that most people seem to enjoy, they'll know that without having you defending them and insulting everyone that might have a complaint.

Oh i love this post so much.

[RiceisNice]

Mhm, I've seen you mention this and I rather agree. I'm interested in a number of jobs I didn't have much care for in 2.x because of how they've grown. NIN is still my main, but...there is one notable change to my gameplay (Armor Crush) versus level 50, and it's...honestly pretty minor. BRD feels rather different to me though, to the point where, while it was my 3rd Zeta in ARR, I will never touch it at 60 again unless they completely scrap Wanderer's Minuet--but in that sense, it didn't grow, you're right...BRD feels like it *regressed.*

Wanderer's Minuet (cast times) by itself isn't a problem, but its that its taking away the frantic (and almost ecstatic) gameplay of a BRD having to be punctual or double weaving Bl/RoD during AoEs. It feels like a pace breaker from a job that focused on "lot of hits at low damage", which is the usual gameplay archetype you'd see from bow users. Taking away auto attacks (or really, giving WM/GB) from both MCH and BRD just seems unnecessary from that front as well, semantics aside they function as faux casters at this point rather than a true physical dps class. I also don't want to go too detailed into MCH, but seeing what they did with DRK, AST and even NIN (which came during a 2.x patch mind you rather than an expansion, so SE themselves have set a standard), MCH ultimately feels like a reskinned BRD 2.0 when it comes down to the basic gameplay. You have the wildfire bursts and that's...about it. Ammo and all of that essentially becomes things you use on oGCD to proc your combos for instant shots (which ironically defeat the purpose of GB's restriction in the first place)

This, along with the content, just screams lack of playtesting, and pushing to meet deadlines at the cost of quality. The principle applies to customer satisfaction in general; people will wait for good product. People won't come back if they're receiving something that's clearly been halfassed or otherwise feels no thoguht has been put into it..espesically if it's been delayed again and again (directly referring to relic).

[Ilitsa]

I've not seen any argument from the "defenders" other than "I enjoy it, so there!", I've not seen any argument as to why they enjoy it. And if you're enjoying it so much... why arn't you in-game doing the "brand new, shiny interesting content"? Instead of lurking around in the forums telling people that their opinions are false and not worth anything? There shouldn't be a need for you to defend SE or the devteam, since they'll be able to see the actual numbers anyways, and if this "content" really is something that most people seem to enjoy, they'll know that without having you defending them and insulting everyone that might have a complaint.

Why do we have to justify our enjoyment to you? Also what says I'm not ingame working on it while lurking around the forums too, my computer screen has the forum up while my TV has the game up, I know, a console player that also owns a computer, it's hard to comprehend, aint it? <3


in all seriousness, my facetious comment aside, both sides of the argument need to be way less judgmental of each other, some like it, some don't both sides are equally valid, stop trying to invalidate each other, it only hurts the community more.

[Ranzan]

Because there is nothing really thought provoking about a recycled grind that people never wanted in the past. And that they didn't realise the reward is nothing more but glamour at best. Well we call say all gear in this game is for glamour. (vertical progression) tome weapons are more practical then these and if your a pro raider the raid weapon us the better option to. So the only defence is that cause the reward does justify the grind.

[Blood-Aki]

Because there is nothing really thought provoking about a recycled grind that people never wanted in the past. And that they didn't realise the reward is nothing more but glamour at best. Well we call say all gear in this game is for glamour. (vertical progression) tome weapons are more practical then these and if your a pro raider the raid weapon us the better option to. So the only defence is that cause the reward does justify the grind.

Were you here before this relic? They will usually keep the quests updated to meet the ilvl meta everytime, the 210 relic isn't the only thing you will keep forever.

The problem is SE likes to use FATES because they have no other use outside of leveling, and they throw every story dungeon in there as well, (except Great gubal) so they are at the same time trying to make it easier for newbies. i see WHAT they are doing..it's just vets don't like it since it's to close to old relic. So you can probably expect next stage to need materia again...i HOPE not. but just be ready for it.

[silentwindfr]

Were you here before this relic? They will usually keep the quests updated to meet the ilvl meta everytime, the 210 relic isn't the only thing you will keep forever.

The problem is SE likes to use FATES because they have no other use outside of leveling, and they throw every story dungeon in there as well, (except Great gubal) so they are at the same time trying to make it easier for newbies. i see WHAT they are doing..it's just vets don't like it since it's to close to old relic. So you can probably expect next stage to need materia again...i HOPE not. but just be ready for it.

dear sir i beg to differe, until the second step and the last step of the previous relic (zenith, was changed after, and zeta) was on par with raid, but outside this step, the relic weapon was always 5ilevel behind because.... it kill the incentive reason of the raider if people that don't raid can earn.... 1 item on par of with what they can get.

that too why we didn't get it sooner, if we had it added at the same time than savage, people will have far less complain than now.

[Ranzan]

snip

I actually have 2 zeta so yes I was here for the first one. Also that doesn't justify this horrid system and timing of it implications at all. Also silent above this post is right the old relic alway lagged behind the raid tiers. That's why the tome or primal weapons are the most efficient weapon's to get cause the relic upgrade timing from the past dictate these weapons are not getting next tier lvl (near or equally next Alex lvl) 3.35 just like now that a half a patch till it's weak again. So yea it's something to do for a glamour item.

[Blood-Aki]

I actually have 2 zeta so yes I was here for the first one. Also that doesn't justify this horrid system and timing of it implications at all. Also silent above this post is right the old relic alway lagged behind the raid tiers. That's why the tome or primal weapons are the most efficient weapon's to get cause the relic upgrade timing from the past dictate these weapons are not getting next tier lvl (near or equally next Alex lvl) 3.35 just like now that a half a patch till it's weak again. So yea it's something to do for a glamour item.

Only for some jobs, SCH for example is best they can get as it's the only weapon with crit on it for them. they ususally keep the relics at the same ilvl as the best raid tier weapons, they won't make them higher otherwise the raids would be useless for the most part, at least the weapons. but for jobs like blm relics are actually a downgrade.

[Alahra]

Also silent above this post is right the old relic alway lagged behind the raid tiers. That's why the tome or primal weapons are the most efficient weapon's to get

In ARR, this was only true for raiders that could reliably get the token item previously necessary to get the tomestone weapon, though. Non-raiders had access to their weapon around the time the Unidentified/Encrypted Tomestones were made available outside of the corresponding raid battles.

With that requirement apparently now waved, this could be true in 3.2, but we honestly don't know. It's entirely possible that with weapons being more readily available now than they were in the past, they may release relic stages sooner than they used to. It's also possible that we'll see the requirement for a raid drop for the tomestone weapon reinstated, too--they may have not put one on the Esoterics weapons because of the delay in the release of the Anima questline, for all we know.

[WinterLuna]

Those people dont have to worry now do they because the old content will be there even if they bring something new and if you want to run WP 1000 more times you certainly can.

The real question is why are you afraid of something new or new content that you dont want it?

I didn't realise I was cowering in fear at new content and was against it, but hey.

My argument for why I enjoy it now although the content was already there? I like those dungeons, I like Alexander, I like farming, I like grinding. My queues for these are popping wonderfully now! So much life has been brought back into the content I like. Again, is that a problem, or am I not allowed to enjoy old content purely because I've done the before?

Also, you realise even adding something new to the relic would get just as old and tedious as you're making the current one out to be? Everything has a shelf life.