3.1 PLD Changes

[Brian_]

snip

When I played WoW from Vanilla through BC, they constantly adjusted classes to try and reach a point of balance. The result? FotM. The classes just played musical chairs every patch -- when the music stopped and the patch hit, there would be winners and losers. Why would it be any different in FFXIV? Just because they adjust classes instead of content doesn't mean it won't be FotM.

On paper, WAR does more DPS than DRK. According to you, that's imbalance. So, they should buff DRK DPS to be on par with WAR or nerf WAR DPS down to DRK levels.

In practice, you have two scenarios. The first, which is basically Savage right now, has the DRK capable of tanking without Grit so that they get the DPS increase of Blood Weapon while also getting the procs for Reprisal and Low Blow. Their DPS ends up being higher than WAR.

The second has the DRK incapable of tanking without Grit and absolutely nothing to parry. Their DPS ends up being lower than WAR because they can't Blood Weapon and cannot get Reprisal / Low Blow procs.

Because of different content, you have different balance. Is this so hard to understand? While they might be balanced in theory, classes will always react differently to content because balance exists relative to content. Unless all the content in the game is identical until the end of time (which nobody wants), you will have variance. At which point you will have FotM again unless your classes are literally identical (which again, nobody wants). Like I said earlier, balance is always the result of some ratio of raid design and class design. It's not your black and white world where the two are separate entities. That they are prioritizing raid design over class design (but still adjusting classes) is perfectly fine.

Forcing more imbalance between tanks is bad; idiotic even.

Except they are not trying to force more imbalance, they are trying to force balance.

[Dhex]

Except they are not trying to force more imbalance, they are trying to force balance.

They aren't forcing balance. They've got imbalance - an imbalance that is going to persist over an 8-month period. They've got a gaping hole between Paladin and the other two tanks. Warrior has a guaranteed raid slot.

I play all three in Savage AS1-3 regularly; Paladin's mitigation is inconsequential, it's utilities are poorly integrated to the point of being useless by design, and the producer really believes that spot-fixing "TP issues" without addressing the key deficiencies with their design is acceptable. Paladin is worse categorically across the board in practical situations.
You have rambling responses of what could be or what will be or how they intended this or how content can change this or that and it's all WORTHLESS WORDS because it doesn't address the current situation or the current oversights and the persisting design flaws that created the situation - you fail to see that all tanks need to be relevant in both tanking slots regardless of content. They aren't. It doesn't matter how much you polish a turd it's still a turd.

[Ashkendor]

It doesn't matter how much you polish a turd it's still a turd.

This sums up Paladin pretty well right now. That's no knight; it's just a turd in shining armor. >:|

(I'm trying to laugh at this but I think it just hits too close to home atm.)

[Yonanja]

When I played WoW from Vanilla through BC, they constantly adjusted classes to try and reach a point of balance. The result? FotM. The classes just played musical chairs every patch -- when the music stopped and the patch hit, there would be winners and losers. Why would it be any different in FFXIV? Just because they adjust classes instead of content doesn't mean it won't be FotM.

Comparing this game to WoW is stupid on so many levels. Blizzard have never been known for being able to balance classes well in their RPGs, be it WoW or Diablo. Also, every class in WoW is a hybrid, expected to be able to perfom more than one task, this makes balancing extremely harder. And as far as I know Blizz have never tried to rebalance a whole role (and all the classes in it) at one time, all they've done is having kneejerk reactions to the issues that have come up, very similar to how the devs do things currently in FF.

Balance is reached when there is no FotM classes, something that is impossible to achieve as long as the focus is on balancing the encounters around different classes with vastly different performances. What they need to do to reach a balanced state is to first balance the classes and then look at the encounters. But I don't think that will ever happens, since I doubt even the devs know what they want to do with this game.

[Ralvenom]

first balance the classes and then look at the encounters. But I don't think that will ever happens, since I doubt even the devs know what they want to do with this game.

You say this like it's freakin' easy. "Oh, yeah...they just need to do that". You're missing a few things:
1. Devs always have a well-defined idea of what they want a class/job to do. *This is software design 101. Figure out what everything does!*
2. You cannot always predict what players are going to do with the dev design. *You cannot test everything.*
3. The easiest way to conform to the original dev design without breaking the game completely is to make tweaks to certain abilities. *If people don't like the original dev design, there are other class/job options.*

Everyone always complains and says, "The devs have no idea what they're doing". Actually, they do. FFXIV is definitely one of the better games in terms of job design and balance. Each job has an intended role that it fits very well, on the whole. Yes, sometimes a job suffers here or there, but the adjustments made usually make up for that -- WHILE still allowing the job to conform to the intended design.

The problem is, everyone wants to sit there and have it their way. Well, sorry...YOUR WAY isn't really what the devs are going to do. (If you're lucky, they'll do it "close" to your way.) If you always want it your way in a game, then go develop your own dang game!

[Reynhart]

1. Devs always have a well-defined idea of what they want a class/job to do.

That's exactly what we doubt.
When you see content specifically designed for heavy DPS check, and a tank whose focus is officialy "mitigation", it's expected to mix...not very well