Patch 3.1: Crafting Reborn (?)

[Alahra]

I was disappointed when we didn't get Specialist recipes to begin with, so I'm glad we're getting them, though I can understand why the really dedicated omnicrafters are disappointed. I can't say I'm surprised, though. They've been trying to discourage omnicrafting, the necessity of it, and the effect it has on the economy, for a long time, but up until now they've generally focused on making the grinds prohibitive to do so, which hasn't really worked. This is a natural extension of their attempts to weaken it.

How far they go with the recipes remains to be seen, though. If I had to wager a guess, we're mostly going to see cosmetic recipes as specialist recipes. I'd be really surprised if things like gearsets, potions, and food end up being on the specialist side of things, though we probably won't know much in that regard until 3.2, when we get a new crafting tier.

The rest of the changes look incredible and resemble thereabouts what it should have looked like at 3.0's launch, in my mind.

[MN_14]

I was disappointed when we didn't get Specialist recipes to begin with, so I'm glad we're getting them, though I can understand why the really dedicated omnicrafters are disappointed.
How far they go with the recipes remains to be seen, though. If I had to wager a guess, we're mostly going to see cosmetic recipes as specialist recipes. I'd be really surprised if things like gearsets, potions, and food end up being on the specialist side of things, though we probably won't know much in that regard until 3.2, when we get a new crafting tier.

I don't really mind specialist recipes if they're limited to cosmetic recipes and other items that don't affect my ability to craft gear sets. However, I'm not convinced that this is going to please single class crafters/specialists in the long run.

It seems to me that it boils down to single class crafters wanting to have an advantage over a dedicated crafter, while putting in only a fraction of the effort. There are complaints over things as simple as acquiring the 3rd master recipe book or capping red scrips each week. The thing is, crafting isn't cheap for any player, so aside from working on your crafting classes, you have to raise the funds to finance progression. That's the second half of the crafting scene that's ignored by many crafters, who only seem interested in selling big ticket items.

This obviously isn't true of all crafters, but I've noticed that many do not run their own regular business to fund their crafting. When HW was first released, intermediate products were prohibitively expensive for new crafters so the argument was valid, but this has now been completely solved through map drops. Yet, these complaints still exist to this day.

Back in ARR, as a single class crafter initially, I bought all of my intermediate products and raw materials in order to craft and put items up to raise gil. If I didn't have enough startup gil, I could farm shards for a bit and sell those first. I then simply calculated the cost of the items and marked them up accordingly. In HW, the margins on final products have typically been much better than the items that I dealt with in 2.3, so raising the required gil for materials/intermediate products shouldn't be a problem.

I guess the bottom line is that I really don't understand the argument of how a single class crafter cannot effectively complete with an omni-crafter. Sure, their profits might be smaller, but margins are now larger than before. If I could still succeed in the market with a single class back when margins were smaller, there really shouldn't be a major problem now.

[Alahra]

It seems to me that it boils down to single class crafters wanting to have an advantage over a dedicated crafter, while putting in only a fraction of the effort.

More than that, it boils down to the fact that SE hasn't really liked omnicrafting for awhile, from what I gather. They've never been good at designing recipe balance to combat it , and they took a number of steps throughout ARR to try to curb its influence (through the addition of more and more grind), but they weren't really successful because the level 50 skills were simply too good and too essential. It's likely that they never really intended for omnicrafting to be essential as it was in 2.0, but they didn't want to rock the boat outside of an expansion.

They tried again with 3.0 to discourage omnicrafting with the lockouts on scrips, but they floundered on recipe balance again (and failed to make Specialization strong enough in and of itself), so it has enormous benefits. It's worth noting that Specialization was originally going to have unique recipes from the start (judging by pre-release info, anyway), but for whatever reason they backed away from it, perhaps thinking the lockouts and general crafting structure would make specializing in a few crafts the more common path. Since that didn't work, they may be putting the recipes back in as another way to tackle what they see as a problem (and for what it's worth, I agree with them, but I don't begrudge any longterm omnicrafters for being upset about this).

It's difficult to guess at their intent just yet, since we don't know the nature and variety of the specialization recipes, though. We'll have to wait and see.

I highly doubt it's going to be the end of the world, though.

[MN_14]

More than that, it boils down to the fact that SE hasn't really liked omnicrafting for awhile, from what I gather. They've never been good at designing recipe balance to combat it , and they took a number of steps throughout ARR to try to curb its influence (through the addition of more and more grind), but they weren't really successful because the level 50 skills were simply too good and too essential. It's likely that they never really intended for omnicrafting to be essential as it was in 2.0, but they didn't want to rock the boat outside of an expansion.

There's no indication yet that specialization will be detrimental to omni-crafters, but all of this is going to depend on player feedback. All of the current changes that have been happening (scrip lockouts, specialization) have been responses to complaints about the accessibility of crafting (including the fact that a new crafter supposedly cannot compete with an omni-crater and will be forced out of the market, which is false as I've mentioned).

This has been a concern for the developers for a while, so back in 2.4, they seemingly came to the conclusion that having all classes should be the norm. They introduced BIS multi-class gear with extra meld slots and low meld caps. Leveling was already previously sped up through leve quests as well. The idea was that each crafter would progress through each class over a course of around 2 weeks, which would temporarily give crafters with specific classes advantages in the market.

However, as a result, they also greatly increased the difficulty of crafting and even introduced crafts like the master book ii tokens, which effectively forced out crafters who had all classes, but were unable to come up with an effective strategy. Take a guess as to what kind of feedback the developers got.

[Alahra]

This has been a concern for the developers for a while, so back in 2.4, they seemingly came to the conclusion that having all classes should be the norm.

Yes, I think by 2.4 they had essentially given up on really curbing the need for omnicrafting and instead made it easier to achieve, waiting to try and modify things to a greater degree in HW. But so far they haven't managed to strike the right balance. With the mat-heavy HW recipes, it's rather taxing to level just one or two crafts, especially for those that depend alot on others (with ALC probably being the worst offender).

They do seem to want us focusing on just a few classes now (Yoshi said as much in an interview not long after launch), but one head doesn't seem to be talking to the other. There are systems in place to encourage and allow specialization, but the general structure of the recipes doesn't really support it right now.

(including the fact that a new crafter supposedly cannot compete with an omni-crater and will be forced out of the market, which is false as I've mentioned).

Regarding this part, to be honest, that sort of thing happens regularly on my server. Omnicrafters have a rather large advantage when it comes to market manipulation that specialized crafters don't: they can purposefully tank a market to push out new entries into it, while making back their losses on other markets (since they have far more options for markets to push into). It's especially tricky right now because we don't have a lot of markets to work with (due to a lack of meaningful recipes), but that will get better as we get more worthwhile recipes.

Additionally, omnicrafters generally can work for better profit margins than those with just one or two crafts (since they aren't relying on others for all of their component materials, like ingots). That makes it easier for them to push people out of markets.

While I'm not by any means suggesting that the time they put in shouldn't be valuable, the structure as of now probably rewards omnicrafting a bit too strongly, to the point where maximizing most of the classes is a necessity for any serious crafter. Given that they're trying to move DoH toward a state that operates more like DoW/DoM classes for progression, they probably want someone to be able to be a serious crafter without needing 6-8 DoH classes at 60. You can be a serious raider with just one class at cap, after all, and I think they want something similar to be possible for crafters. They're getting there (red scrips were a step in the right direction and they generally accomplish a lot of what needs to be done), but they still need to tweak things.

[MN_14]

Regarding this part, to be honest, that sort of thing happens regularly on my server. Omnicrafters have a rather large advantage when it comes to market manipulation that specialized crafters don't: they can purposefully tank a market to push out new entries into it, while making back their losses on other markets (since they have far more options for markets to push into). It's especially tricky right now because we don't have a lot of markets to work with (due to a lack of meaningful recipes), but that will get better as we get more worthwhile recipes.

Hmm, I'm probably fortunate that this doesn't seem to happen often in my server. The worst cases I've seen have been crafters lowering prices to around break-even, but even that's been fairly rare over the last 6 months.

We could use a population boost, so any crafter who wants a less hostile, but slower market environment, please transfer over to Coeurl!

[Alahra]

Hmm, I'm probably fortunate that this doesn't seem to happen often in my server. The worst cases I've seen have been crafters lowering prices to around break-even, but even that's been fairly rare over the last 6 months.

Diabolos was, in ARR at least, one of the more crafting-focused servers, so competition can at times get a bit cutthroat. Omnicrafters here are already often at war with one another on the highly desirable markets before even considering folks that may only have a few crafts at max level.

When is the questionable 3.2 coming? Any idea?

We can roughly guess. Yoshi-P's said that after 3.1, they'll be back on the normal patch schedule, which suggests we'll see 3.2 about 3.5 months after 3.1's launch, sometime in February. One poster mentioned December, but that's actually for 3.15 (the patch adding Anima weapons).