Deliverance rant

[Freyyy]

Sorry but the DPS output of WAR with a Triple Decimate while a WHM stun locks + Overpower/Zerk/BB makes mobs literally melt.

Please explain me how you do triple Decimate while still using more than 1 Overpower during your Berserk window.

You're both wrong. The most AoE DPS you can get is by building your stacks with a single SE combo + RI + Vengeance, switch to Deliverance, BloodbathIRZerk, double Decimate and spam Overpower till pacified. Staying in Defiance and using Unchained is useless unless you're undergeared or your healer sucks. And doing triple Decimate forces you to use only single target moves during your Zerk phase and 1 more Decimate doesn't outweight 8 Overpowers.

[Rawrz]

Please explain me how you do triple Decimate while still using more than 1 Overpower during your Berserk window.

You're both wrong. The most AoE DPS you can get is by building your stacks with a single SE combo + RI + Vengeance, switch to Deliverance, BloodbathIRZerk, double Decimate and spam Overpower till pacified. Staying in Defiance and using Unchained is useless unless you're undergeared or your healer sucks. And doing triple Decimate forces you to use only single target moves during your Zerk phase and 1 more Decimate doesn't outweight 8 Overpowers.

Wouldn't it be better to Vengeance after you are in Deliverance? That way it doesn't suffer the damage penalty and it gains 5%. o-o Just wording order I know, but Vengeance is too damn sexy to pop in Defiance if you're going to be in Deliverance anyways.

[SpookyGhost]

Wouldn't it be better to Vengeance after you are in Deliverance? That way it doesn't suffer the damage penalty and it gains 5%. o-o Just wording order I know, but Vengeance is too damn sexy to pop in Defiance if you're going to be in Deliverance anyways.

It actually depends on your healer. SCH benefits more from Vengeance up front for the mitigation, AST benefits from it being used a bit later, and WHM benefits from it being used the latest (when stun immunity kicks in). While Vengeance's damage reflect thing is a DPS increase, it's also your biggest mitigation tool, so priority goes to mitigation when you're pulling a butt ton of mobs and your healer is DPSing.

[Freyyy]

Wouldn't it be better to Vengeance after you are in Deliverance? That way it doesn't suffer the damage penalty and it gains 5%. o-o Just wording order I know, but Vengeance is too damn sexy to pop in Defiance if you're going to be in Deliverance anyways.

Vengeance's potency is calculated each time the counter effect is triggered, it's not like DoTs.

[Dhex]

Please explain me how you do triple Decimate while still using more than 1 Overpower during your Berserk window.

You're both wrong. The most AoE DPS you can get is by building your stacks with a single SE combo + RI + Vengeance, switch to Deliverance, BloodbathIRZerk, double Decimate and spam Overpower till pacified. Staying in Defiance and using Unchained is useless unless you're undergeared or your healer sucks. And doing triple Decimate forces you to use only single target moves during your Zerk phase and 1 more Decimate doesn't outweight 8 Overpowers.

Welll uh you don't use Berserk on your first pull soooo.... Gather 4 stacks and refresh Maim before that mob set is finished then when pull next section land a Heavy Swing while moving - WHM Holy stunlocks pack in place - Berserk -> Decimate -> Infuriate -> Decimate -> Raw/Vengence/Maim -> Storm - OP -> Heavy/Maim -> Decimate -> Bloodbath spam a few Overpowers and then WHM pops Esuna for Pac maybe heals** (**but unlikely since you don't lose HP while stuff was stunlocked and you and your other WAR just did the same thing so y'all dealt 5/6 Decimates + a few OPs all while Zerk'd and now have Raw/Venge up anyway) so yeah stuff just melts before it can even touch either Warrior... then you finish anything left with your combos to refill stacks before a boss.

Yes this is speed running custom setup. Just like WP using a WHM/WHM PLD BRD when Holy spammin' was the bes-thing-eva.

No pugs probably won't be able to do it. You can try as a solo WAR in the DF but probably not going to get far without a WHM that gets it and uses Holy. Considering the frequency with which you encounter White Mages that hurdur only heal and forget that they can stunlock stuff or just suck outright - yeah you probably won't have a chance to do this often. If you're using Defiance for enmity... I mean I.. I don't get why? - Deliverance/BB/Overpower is more damage, gives a bigger self-heal, generate plenty of enmity and you can Decimate which is better than a Steel Cyclone. If you're getting hit by 8+ mobs and don't have a WHM to Holy they still will Bene you or a SCH would Lustrate spam so again no reason to Defiance... since neither of those are really going to be effected by bonus Healing and that extra few thousand HP isn't going to vastly change anything. If your Healer is a derpy pug you can always Holmgang and dance to Defiance after a pull and dish to Equilibrium for HP. If you have an AST I will cringe for you.


But yeah if you do go try this each WAR should hit around 2800-3200++ dps in i200 STR gear on 7/8+ mob packs usually.

:3

Grab a WHM buddy, another WAR buddy, and a DPS buddy (DRG is really nice to have in party) and go try it nothing is stopping you.
Make your "daily dungeon" more exciting? Yes-please-hoo.


PS: Dungeon content is a joke. You can clear without a healer (albeit much slower than usual).

[Tyrial]

Welll uh you don't use Berserk on your first pull soooo.... Gather 4 stacks and refresh Maim before that mob set is finished then when pull next section land a Heavy Swing while moving - WHM Holy stunlocks pack in place - Berserk -> Decimate -> Infuriate -> Decimate -> Raw/Vengence/Maim -> Storm - OP -> Heavy/Maim -> Decimate -> Bloodbath spam a few Overpowers and then WHM pops Esuna for Pac maybe heals** (**but unlikely since you don't lose HP while stuff was stunlocked and you and your other WAR just did the same thing so y'all dealt 5/6 Decimates + a few OPs all while Zerk'd and now have Raw/Venge up anyway) so yeah stuff just melts before it can even touch either Warrior... then you finish anything left with your combos to refill stacks before a boss..

Why would you do something that produces less potency overall?

In your post you mention most packs are 7-8 mobs, so we'll use 8 mobs that are being hit. Not counting the mid-pull Heavy Swing you're looking at 8 GCDs from the time you do your first Decimate to the third.

Your basic GCD rotation you listed (minus buffs thrown in) looks like this:

Decimate > Decimate > Maim > SE > OP > HS > Maim > Decimate

Taking base potency without any buffs other than Combo value you're looking at:

2240 (Decimate on 8 mobs) > 2240(Dec) > 190(Maim) > 270(SE) > 960 (OP on 8 mobs) > 150(HS) > 190(Maim) > 2240 (Dec)

Total Potency: 8480


A double Decimate/OP spam rotation (assuming you started at the same number of stacks) with a mid-pull Heavy Swing:

Maim > Decimate > Decimate > OP > OP > OP > OP > OP

Potency:

190(Maim) > 2240(Dec) > 2240(Dec) > 960(OP) > 960(OP) > 960(OP) > 960(OP) > 960(OP)

Total Potency: 9470

[Dhex]

.

Sure ok I'll give you that maybe it does end up with a higher output I guess. Overall potency wise you're right its maybe more to just spam.

You're probably going kill them all very fast either way, especially WAR WAR you won't even get a triple Decimate (depends on the HP pools of the trash those droids in Fractal just die instantly ex) so you can just save the stacks left over for the next pack of monsters or boss fight.
It's just fun to do. The only bone is maybe that Overpower spam isn't TP efficient either really unless you're willing to drop Equilibrium for TP over a single mob pack?

In a PUG it won't matter likely if you exhaust TP or CDs since things won't likely "go to plan" anyway.

It gets the job done either way one way is CD efficient (I suppose?) the other is TP efficient.

Just goes to show WAR has really high raw output on packs of monsters.

[Tyrial]

Sure ok.

You're probably going kill them early, so you can just save stacks left over for the next pack of monsters or boss fight.



That and it's just fun to do. Overpower spam isn't TP efficient either really unless you're willing to drop Equilibrium for TP over a single mob pack.

Doesn't matter if you're going to kill them early or not. It was all based off the example you tried to say was superior. As for Equilibrium, if things are getting killed that quickly it's not an issue to use it for TP gain. The recast is short enough that it'll be up for each pull.

[Dhex]

Doesn't matter if you're going to kill them early or not. It was all based off the example you tried to say was superior. As for Equilibrium, if things are getting killed that quickly it's not an issue to use it for TP gain. The recast is short enough that it'll be up for each pull.

Well there is nothing wrong with being wrong - I've just always done as many Decimates as I could feasibly squeeze into a pull (which has always yielded a lot of damage) - a triple isn't very common but we do them sometimes. I'll just mess with Overpower and see if the results are better, but usually my goal when rounding out any trash pack is to build a few stacks for the next pull/boss.


Edit: We tested this the other night. Depending on crits it goes either way but Zerk - Dec/Dec OP OP OP OP OP grabs stacks PAC -> next pull ended up being efficient and more reliable to push us along at a higher pace overall since there is less timing involved.