Deliverance rant

[Ralvenom]

It's not really worth waiting 30s+ before you even pull trash.

I don't wait at all between pulls. I don't HAVE TO. I still make full use of 4 of my CDs every single pull.

[ArdorGrey]

So you're taking nearly a full minute between trash pulls for CDs?

The biggest problem is new-to-60 tanks taking advice meant for fully geared tanks. If you are very outgeared by the dps, just focus on holding hate and forget about maxing out dps. If you are geared similarly to the dps, then you can try and squeeze out more damage.

I agree waiting between trash pulls is terrible, but if anything the more overgeared you are the more you should push dps, not the less.

Also referring back to the post you quoted, thrill is so, so much more valuable in deliverance paired with something like convalescence and foresight than getting an extra 20% out of the up front heaing in almost all situations.

I can't rally recommend anything that poster suggests doing tbh.

[SpookyGhost]

Also referring back to the post you quoted, thrill is so, so much more valuable in deliverance paired with something like convalescence and foresight than getting an extra 20% out of the up front heaing in almost all situations.

It sort of depends, you'll be starting in Defiance anyway so you might as well pop it while you're still in that stance for the extra "healing". Whether that healing will matter or just be overhealing depends on what your healer is doing, but it's not like Thrill disappears when you switch to Deliverance.

I don't wait at all between pulls. I don't HAVE TO. I still make full use of 4 of my CDs every single pull.

Ok. ?_?

[Aurius]

I don't wait for infuriate to come back, or unchained. Just an opener that solidifies hate and makes deliverance pushes easier. Thrill in defiance gives more health for a heal, so use it and then switch to deliverance, you keep the 20% gain in deliverance and got 5% more health for pushing a button. Stances are ogcd so the switch is miniscule. If you have 20k in defiance thrill heals 4k, 800 more health than deliverance at 16k. It's just hit it, switch stances, that easy.OP spam may be a good means of DPS on trash, I've honestly never parsed it, my DPS in dungeons is always good in my opinion so maybe I'll check it out. As the waiting goes, we know the expert dungeons/Alex so well that you know where the next pull is. Time it, this is xenos aggro opener and its a huge DPS increase.

[ArdorGrey]

snip

I didn't know it snapshotted the hp amount, that's good to know. Popping it right before swapping over sounds very circumstantially appealing, for situations where you want to start pushing damage but berserk/ bb is still on cd(though it also seems excessive assuming they are ready to fire). That's what I love about War and a big part of what makes it seem so strong atm: all their skills have such amazing synergy both with each other and with the concept of tanking aggressively, and they can all be mixed and matched differently based on the situation. I think what a lot of people in threads complaining about War's power overlook, and what this topic highlights, is the player skill needed to really take advantage of that.

[Aurius]

I'm sorry, sholdve clarified, I try to run with healers I know. When unchained is falling off they let me drop to about 50% health. I pop equilibrium and thrill and I'm sitting at about 16k (enemies pummeling me while I hit buttons) I feel if I switch to deliverance from defiance, having an excess of deliverance hp is a waste as it is lost, so that's how I use it.

[ArdorGrey]

snip

Yeah I thought you meant use thrill when you were sitting in defiance, I can definitely get behind using it before deliverance in some situations.

Op spam is huge if you pull big on trash. I SHOULD clarify for any fresh wars out there reading this I'm not saying everyone should go ham on pulls, but once you're comfortable pulling big berserk>bloodlust>decimate>infuriate>op spam>decimate right before berserk drops is huge. pop RI + awareness, vengeance, or even just foresight, though if you pull big vengeance should be up for every pull by the time you've set up aggro and 4 stacks(try to get up 2 while pulling ;> ). This should also be handy in A2s.

1 decimate needs 5 stacks built to throw out. If you have a lot of tp issues with op spam it may seem preferable, but with enough practice you can throw a lot of OP without stopping to recover tp at all. Even with vengeance and raw intuition triple decimate requires you to burn almost all your zerk gcds single targeting. giving up one decimate in exchange for op spam the whole time would be a huge dps increase in comparison.

there are gray areas where there will be one problematic mob where getting up eye *might* be worth it. but that's what being a good warrior is about: being adaptable and flexible and never getting too rigidly stuck in a single rotation to use in all situations.

[StouterTaru]

I agree waiting between trash pulls is terrible, but if anything the more overgeared you are the more you should push dps, not the less.

That's what I said, outgeared by the dps means their gear is much better than yours:
undergeared = keep mobs off dps and focus hate
overgeared = push dps

[StouterTaru]

I don't wait at all between pulls. I don't HAVE TO. I still make full use of 4 of my CDs every single pull.

Unless you are doing big pulls, 2 minutes per trash pull is ugh. If you are doing those big trash pulls, then you'll get a whole lot more damage stacking unchained and berserk, and using overpower. Of course you don't get the big e-peen ST number in your chat log, but stuff dies faster.

[ArdorGrey]

If you are doing those big trash pulls, then you'll get a whole lot more damage stacking unchained and berserk, and using overpower.

deliverance is 5% more raw damage and 10% more crit, on top of one more decimate. How exactly is unchained defiance stronger than that? It's not like you suddenly cant use op in deliverance. And no I'm not endorsing the waiting game, but unchained should really only be used as an opener before you zerk at all or if for some reason a pull drags out and you burn through all your other defensive cd's and need to turtle up again.

If you use vengeance near the start of every pull it'll be back up by around the same in the next pull in my experience. With really good dps maybe not, but that's rare in df. And sorry about misunderstanding what you said before, running on not much sleep atm. XD