Deliverance rant

[Bebekurenai]

I'm in need of venting and advice. I've decided to finally post about this matter because I'm starting to dislike the general warrior player base, and it shouldn't be this way. But it has come to the point where I've even set a search comment (not that anyone, specially warriors, would read) and lately very close to just quit the dungeon if I'm paired with a warrior.

This is from a healer and summoner point of view and it started back then when HW was fresh and we just got our first 60:

My first quit in HW, you can call it rage-quit, was the Library. I was whm, got paired with a blm, a brd and a warrior. It was the first time I got paired with a war on Deliverance and was curious and excited, I heard all sorts of goodies and how awesome wars were now with this new stance and it also was a refreshing change from all the drk wave. First pull, the very first room with a damselfly and two other mobs I can't recall now (was it even 3 monsters?) and this warrior guy just was almost dead and the dps didn't even engage yet. I thought "shit my gear must be broken", quick check, nope, all good. "Shit, the tank's gear must be broken", maybe. Then the dps engaged and hell was loose. I think, if my memory serves, the blm had two and the brd had the other one, but anyhow, the tank was mobless. My mp were already down to 3k and only Benediction was left. And the mobs weren't even 50% /cry.
So I typed as I could in party "please put defiance on" but no answer and no Defiance. Got this group eventually killed and we went to the next, didn't even have time to stoneskin. Hell goes loose again and I really got stressed out. The blm barely could cast since he was tanking again, and I repeated in party about please putting Defiance on, but nah. So once we kill those, I glue myself to the spot and let the war run ahead and repeat my plea again. He then says "I'm not gonna defiance for 3 mobs". I respond "Ok then", open the DF menu and leave. I knew it was gonna be pointless to make my point come across when he clearly didn't even care so I just left, I didn't fancy running the whole dungeon like this, stresses me out.

I then sought information with my friends on how exactly this stance works. When I told them what just happened my friend who mains warrior laughed and said I just got a very bad tank. That by no means he should have used Deliverance on trash, not just for the healer's sake (since he wouldn't benefit from the extra heal potency from Defiance) but also enmity wise. That was my point, since that guy only tanked until the dps layed hands on the mobs, then it was mostly the blm tanking.

So ever since then, when I got warriors with me, I have to cringe. Most are already harder to heal than any other tank job in my experience, and let me dps very little to nothing, but when they go with this silly (scuse me) stance dancing, I feel the urge to press "leave". I have come across only one or two remarkable warriors in DF (no I don't mean my friend) within maybe um... 100? And I have a friend astro who just loves warriors o_O; (what's wrong with me)

And as mentioned before, this also happens when I go smn. Hate is just everywhere and I either have to go nuts to finish off monsters hitting me or back the heck off and loose all my stacks. And no, I don't Raging Strikes at begining. I don't even Raging Strikes at all for trash, but Quelling sadly is always down when I'm with a Deliverance war.

Now this is the thing: Why? Why do you warriors have the need to stance dance? I get it on bosses, heck I'd expect a pld to be on sword oath and a drk to remove grit, but on trash??? When I see a pld going sword oath on trash it's mostly by mistake, a few seconds and he realizes and everything is fine again. Drk, same thing, but warriors still have a reason apparently to do this and I ask you as a community, why? DPS? Well, if you gonna do that you are making sure that I don't even see Cleric stance shine on my bar so in the end you wanna dps cause I don't dps and ugh....

[Ashelia_Ferron]

So, where's the rant? The only thing I can gather from this post is that you don't like when WARs tank in Deliverance.

[Mendalas]

If you are referring to the fact that a lot of "elitist" warriors thinks its okay to sit in deliverance the whole dungeon and not pop any c'ds on top of that, then I am right there with you. As a healer this drives me insane! I turn into a healbot because they take so much damage. I can't even get 1 aoe damage spell off before they are below half health.

I play warrior some too since 1.0. It's always been my go to tank job for doing dungeons. It's part of the reason why it's so frustrating because if played properly you can swap in and out both stances and still do similar damage with unchained and other cd's. But on large trash pulls.... it is so rude to just sit in deliverance and not pop a single cd. Warriors that do this are just the ultimate troll.

[Tyrial]

Your friend is correct and you're running into idiot WARs. A good WAR will swap to Deliverance for large trash pulls after aggro is established to help DPS down the pack. Defensive CDs should be popped and they should be able to keep themselves reasonably topped off and in no danger of getting killed if you're taking the proper precautions before you go full DPS mode.

Deliverance isn't only for bosses, it's for any time that we don't need the extra HP, enmity or skill sets that come with Defiance (Inner Beast, Steel Cyclone, healing from Equilibrium). Very rarely do I even touch Defiance in dungeons anymore if I'm running with my friends, but it's not something I do with DF groups unless I find that I can trust the healer and the DPS aren't complete garbage.

[Mendalas]

Your friend is correct and you're running into idiot WARs. A good WAR will swap to Deliverance for large trash pulls after aggro is established to help DPS down the pack. Defensive CDs should be popped and they should be able to keep themselves reasonably topped off and in no danger of getting killed if you're taking the proper precautions before you go full DPS mode.

Deliverance isn't only for bosses, it's for any time that we don't need the extra HP, enmity or skill sets that come with Defiance (Inner Beast, Steel Cyclone, healing from Equilibrium). Very rarely do I even touch Defiance in dungeons anymore if I'm running with my friends, but it's not something I do with DF groups unless I find that I can trust the healer and the DPS aren't complete garbage.

I wish it was you that I run into in expert roulette. You are actually smart. The ones that I get stay in deliverance, loose aggro, and never pop a defensive cd.

[Eisengrim]

Why do you as Whitemage stance dance with Cleric's Stance? Surely it'd be better if you just kept it off so your healing potency is always at max. On bosses, sure, but on trash?

[Bebekurenai]

Why do you as Whitemage stance dance with Cleric's Stance? Surely it'd be better if you just kept it off so your healing potency is always at max. On bosses, sure, but on trash?

Well, this is not about stance dancing clearly, actually the 2 remarkable warriors (yes I counted them) were stance dancing and popping cds and they were just divine; it's about those who don't dance and remain on Deliverance as a way of living. I dance too on whm if I see it fit, which I don't when I got those bad warriors. And it's not a moaning about me not being able to cleric, it's about how obvious it is that they are in the wrong stance when hate is all over the place and not only the super-war is near death but also the co-tanking dps, and they still feel so OP that they never change.

I can deal with not popping cds, lazy if you ask me but I can deal with it, but it's a continous suffering when its a Deliverance fanboy.

[Eisengrim]

...

Yeah, I know. It just felt right to use the cleric's stance thing as a point that shows that a warrior changing stances isn't a reason for you to want to hit leave as soon as you see them do it, since a lot of WHMs do the same thing successfully when they know when to properly use Cleric's. It's the same thing with warriors and I do hope you get more experienced warriors like those two, that actually know what they're doing and when they should and shouldn't use deliverance. They are out there... Somwhere. o-o

[Flipside101]

Why do you as Whitemage stance dance with Cleric's Stance? Surely it'd be better if you just kept it off so your healing potency is always at max. On bosses, sure, but on trash?

Not sure if troll or just bad. WHM Holy spam can out dps even a good war anyday. Not to mention the added stuns = nothing hitting the tank = inderect dps increase since you dont have to heal.

[Rawrz]

Not sure if troll or just bad. WHM Holy spam can out dps even a good war anyday. Not to mention the added stuns = nothing hitting the tank = inderect dps increase since you dont have to heal.

Eis was just being sarcastic. xD

While Holy is great, I think Deliverance Overpower spam might win that fight, especially since Holy degrades in damage as more mobs are hit, while Overpower keeps hitting.. ;-; But a Holy stun is VERY nice. Lets a WHM use a few extra skills while dpsing. @.@

I don't really feel like Deliverance does much to hurt a Warrior, aside from when an SCH is healing. WHM/AST can throw on a regren while defiance is still up. Eos and Selene will heal less on the Warrior, but a half decent War will pop Defiance back on if he feels that heals aren't keeping up.