useless scholars

[Lastelli]

Ok, do you use lustrate on tank more or dps more?

Tanks, but that doesn't invalidate my point. On DRK and PLD it's basically the same as before. Plus, it can crit.

[Delily]

im not against healers dpsing. I think they should when they are able, but i dont see it as a problem if they dont. Lots of reasons why a healer might not want to dps.Then theirs the argument of only sticking to your role. A healer only wants to heal and a tank only wants to tank etc. People shouldnt be forced or shunned b to do something outside of the role they have.


Which has always been a complaint to me in any MMO. If a way to do something is better, everyone will think negatively on someone doing it another way, even if that way is passable.


No dungeon should tank the full 90 minutes with the 2 dps actually dpsing, thats the other thing, a dps slacks off by dpsing less, which is the role they are, a healer slacks off by not dpsing, which is not the role they are.


This post was all over the place sorry

It's a scholar we're talking about there. Unlike either AST or WHM, the benefit to the SCH is that there is effectively another healer in the group. The fairies can keep the tank alive in all 4 man content while the player is applying DoT spells. Stance dancing and clipping DoTs is a core skill to a SCH. If you're not doing those, then dismiss the pet.

[thunderbreak]

Hmmmm...how did you get your math? On tanks the numbers are totally less. On a 19000K HP tank, which is what ilv200 DK and Pally should be, 30% would heal 5700, EVERYTIME, cleric stance or not, diseased or not.

901 Healing Lustrate right now heals about 4K average, I just popped 12 lustrates in a row on this AFK guy and not a single one crit.

[Blessedbythesun]

It's a scholar we're talking about there. Unlike either AST or WHM, the benefit to the SCH is that there is effectively another healer in the group. The fairies can keep the tank alive in all 4 man content while the player is applying DoT spells. Stance dancing and clipping DoTs is a core skill to a SCH. If you're not doing those, then dismiss the pet.

So you would suggest losing 2-3 very useful support skills that each fairy brings to the table that makes a SCH more dynamic than just having a pet that will constantly heal?

I have never been in a EX roulette dungeon speed run that fairies could be trusted at all to keep a tank alive within the first 5-7 seconds of an initial pull, with or without adlo and stoneskin.

edit: But also to another point, you would suggest that SCH should release their pets and just heal, would would equate to telling them to play WHM or AST, which would also mean the implication that SCH are expected to DPS but WHM and AST aren't? But if WHM and AST aren't expected to DPS, how the hell does that make having a SCH who doesn't DPS a burden and a leech?

On this note, I am now done with my thoughts on the matter.

[DarkerOrange]

I'd be more than happy to take a video of me not healing in an ex dungeon to show you, it is very very very easy to do.

[Blessedbythesun]

I'd be more than happy to take a video of me not healing in an ex dungeon to show you, it is very very very easy to do.

Are you going to do it a tank that using their self sustaining and damage mitigation abilities, and DPS that limit damage taken to unavoidable damage. Or otherwise going in blind in DF without a premade party, sure. Go right a head. I'll gladly take back what I said about it.

[RedHerb]

I'd be more than happy to take a video of me not healing in an ex dungeon to show you, it is very very very easy to do.

I'd like to see this too...

[Lastelli]

Hmmmm...how did you get your math? On tanks the numbers are totally less. On a 19000K HP tank, which is what ilv200 DK and Pally should be, 30% would heal 5700, EVERYTIME, cleric stance or not, diseased or not.

901 Healing Lustrate right now heals about 4K average, I just popped 12 lustrates in a row on this AFK guy and not a single one crit.

1) in the current meta, tanks are generally around 18k (because slaying jewels);
2) lustrate was 25% iirc, so around 4500 HP per lustrate if it wasn't changed.
Lustrate now heals for about the same amount of HP on a well equipped SCH...and this is why it is less effective on WARs with defiance on...but since most WARs tank in deliverance now it's not really a problem lol

[thunderbreak]

Ok, if it's 25% then I remembered wrong, but if it heals about the same but can't be as effective in cleric stance or diseased isn't that still a nerf? I mean this topic is about Scholars not dpsing, and I feel lustrate has a contribution factor to it for sure.

And about that deliverance tanking....I'm really wondering if this is intended by SE or not.

[Risvertasashi]

And about that deliverance tanking....I'm really wondering if this is intended by SE or not.

I don't think it was particularly intended-- they're changing tank damage calculations in 3.1, which kind of hints that "all STR accs, tank stance off tanking" was not really intended.

Of course, just changing the calculations of damage (presumably to make it scale from VIT at least partially) doesn't mean SE intends to completely do away with the meta that has arisen.

While I'm here... On the subject of lustrate, to me it's more powerful now. I did some testing in FCoB when I was maining SCH and my WHM was equally geared and I found this to be true on a warrior tank:
Cure was only slightly behind lustrate
Cure Crit was more powerful than lustrate
Cure + DS was more powerful than lustrate
Cure II was more powerful than lustrate under all circumstances save for healing debuffs

Of course, Cures couldn't (and still can't) be spammed like the 1-second recast lustrate, but 600 potency actually brings lustrate a lot closer to cure II and, as others have pointed out, it can crit now. And it's useful on DPS.

It can still be viewed as a nerf if you look at it strictly from being able to heal through debuffs and cleric stance. But in terms of healing power, lustrate actually got a boost/buff.