Deliverance rant

[Freyyy]

If sch dps: wait till you see bane going off and verify Cleric stance is off, then you can start with deliverance.

Actually if the healer is DPSing you can go Deliverance as soon as your HP bar hits 75% because your healer isn't healing you so Defiance is basically doing nothing here and will not make the healer switch back to healing later or whatever.

Edit : Just wanted to add that Defiance is better when used while the healer is healing you, it's not the other way around. Defiance is useless if you're not receiving any heal and you don't need the extra HP/don't have them anymore. It's completely different than Shield Oath/Grit, these ones actually reduce the incoming damage, so keeping it up while the healer is DPSing will actually help him staying in Cleric Stance longer.

[AniCelestine]

Actually if the healer is DPSing you can go Deliverance as soon as your HP bar hits 75% because your healer isn't healing you so Defiance is basically doing nothing here and will not make the healer switch back to healing later or whatever.

Well, I was thinking about a situation like for example 1st pull in fractal continuum where you're taking quite some dmg and thought you'd let the sch heal you up close to 80% of your hp from that 30-50% you dropped to.

But that's something you could consider with whm healing when they're casting aero III followed by holy and you get hit down somewhat around that 75% mark before stun takes effect (depends on the HoT ticks) gotta admit I hadn't thought of that.

[Freyyy]

A good WAR in Deliverance with CDs running barely needs any healer assistance for big trash pulls during the IRBerserk + Bloodbath window anyway.

[Nekotee]

And what do you achieve with that? If you're not gonna dps and the warrior knows how to manage it why'd you go and fuck it up intentionnaly

I fuck it up on purpose only if the warrior refuse to switch in défiance when he need to.
I will always start healing, but toy with me, force me to blow up all my CD in one pack and you're gonna end up on the ground.

A good war start in défiance and switch when he has enough aggro.

I won't compensate mistake nor lazyness for defense cooldown

[Aurius]

Sorry a brother warrior left that impression upon you. As many stated, that's a bad tank. I run defiance in the beginning of every trash pull, and if healer gear is lacking, I stick to it to make their lives easier. In all honesty, I've tanked entire roulette dungeons in deliverance and been told by healers they've never been able to DPS so much due to the ease of keeping me alive. If my healer can't DPS, im failing my duty. A good tank will tank above DPS every time.

[ArdorGrey]

As a healer main... I encourage you to start pulling in defiance and decide whether to use defiance or deliverance depending on whether or not your healer is doing dps.

Alright, it sounds like you don't understand how warriors tank stance works. They work completely different than drk and pld and their tank stance doesn't mitigate doodly squat.

Warriors gain tanking advantages based on their offensive power. Their "dps" stance actually offers tanking/mitigating/self healing advantages when used at the appropriate time. this is one of the often overlooked but very distinct advantages they have over drk and pld atm.

Their tank stance otoh is only ever helpful if you are being actively healed. If we aren't receiving healing all it does is reduce our damage, which would otherwise be helping us heal ourselves *anyway*.

So, effectively, you are saying that if I see my healer pushing dps, I should inflict -20% damage on myself, so I can heal myself less, so that they can heal me more when they stop dpsing anyway. this doesn't make sense.

I always pull in defiance, but as soon as aggro is established and/or bloodbath and berserk are on cooldown, I'm going into deliverance regardless of how good or bad the healer is. There's simply no reason not to.

[Flipside101]

Why do you as Whitemage stance dance with Cleric's Stance? Surely it'd be better if you just kept it off so your healing potency is always at max. On bosses, sure, but on trash?

Not sure if troll or just bad. WHM Holy spam can out dps even a good war anyday. Not to mention the added stuns = nothing hitting the tank = inderect dps increase since you dont have to heal.

[Rawrz]

Not sure if troll or just bad. WHM Holy spam can out dps even a good war anyday. Not to mention the added stuns = nothing hitting the tank = inderect dps increase since you dont have to heal.

Eis was just being sarcastic. xD

While Holy is great, I think Deliverance Overpower spam might win that fight, especially since Holy degrades in damage as more mobs are hit, while Overpower keeps hitting.. ;-; But a Holy stun is VERY nice. Lets a WHM use a few extra skills while dpsing. @.@

I don't really feel like Deliverance does much to hurt a Warrior, aside from when an SCH is healing. WHM/AST can throw on a regren while defiance is still up. Eos and Selene will heal less on the Warrior, but a half decent War will pop Defiance back on if he feels that heals aren't keeping up.

[Twilite]

Maybe it's me..but I find WARs easier to heal, and just a tad bit difficult when in deliverance. Maybe I'm just lucky and been getting the good ones.

I did get a war that used Deliverance for the entire run. All I could do was laugh at the situation really.

[Drako]

Sounds like OP got a bad tank. Could of been one of those players that just aren't very good at the game in general. They probably can't handle all the extra stuff involved in stance dancing. Most of us good war's have been stance dancing sense 2.0. So Deliverance didn't really change anything for us. Except more deeps. As far as the comments on very few good warriors out there, this applies to every single job sense 3.0. They changed how each job functioned, and actually added a new level of complexity. Before 3.0 you were still lucky to find people that knew their job well enough to optimize and do the best possible. But now, lol, its much harder to find anyone that knows their job and can perform it at the max. That new level of complexity is well received for those of us that can keep up with it, it makes it more fun and engaging. But most of the player base that can't, or would rather not max because of how much concentration it takes, or simply doesn't have the capability/skill, doesn't like it. And those of us that can, that runs into those that can't get more irritated with these types as a result. The gap between the players that can max the job potential and players that can't or wont is much larger now. It's really a double edged sword.