Deliverance rant

[bounddreamer]

Oh god please don't lump this Bad in with the rest of us. Any warrior worth his axe knows when to use Deliverance and when to use Defiance. And it's possible to tank a whole dungeon in Deliverance IF you're geared well (as good or better than your dps) and you're with a healer you know and trust or you ask first and try a small pull.

That guy was Bad and not representative of real Warriors. I had a bad DRK this morning when I was running SCH. Doesn't meant they're all bads.

[Whiteroom]

I hear you. WAR has become what I thought DRK was going to be. A bunch of dps running around thinking dps is all there is to tanking. Whats dodging or defensive CD again?

[bounddreamer]

I hear you. WAR has become what I thought DRK was going to be. A bunch of dps running around thinking dps is all there is to tanking. Whats dodging or defensive CD again?

Seriously - this isn't a WAR thing. It's a bad tank thing. Any tank that runs the wrong stance, fails to hold threat, and doesn't use cooldowns is just bad.

And honestly? The fact that WAR can out dps a lot of actual dps players if that WAR is playing their job right means a lot of dps players are just bad.

[Whiteroom]

Seriously - this isn't a WAR thing. It's a bad tank thing. Any tank that runs the wrong stance, fails to hold threat, and doesn't use cooldowns is just bad.

And honestly? The fact that WAR can out dps a lot of actual dps players if that WAR is playing their job right means a lot of dps players are just bad.

Tbh, its far more prevalent with WARs, so yes it is a WAR thing. I would say that probably 4/5 WARs I run into are just dps who like a big axe.

Also, if you wanted to do the whole "its a bad tank thing", you may as well have gone with a "It's a bad player thing"

And honestly, any tank or healer role can out dps a large portion of the current dps players. Sadly, even PLD.

[bounddreamer]

I run heals and dps as well as tanking, and I'd have to disagree. I was seeing far more DRKs running without Grit than WAR running Deliverance only. And I do a ton of dungeon running and hunting. It's leveled off and most people still playing seem to be playing their tank jobs properly if they've stuck with it. But I'm still getting more bad DRK players in roulette than bad WARs.

[MeridaQ]

Tbh, its far more prevalent with WARs, so yes it is a WAR thing.

Also, if you wanted to do the whole "its a bad tank thing", you may as well have gone with a "It's a bad player thing"
.

Being a bad tank does not equate to a bad player, please don't make that assumption. I know many people who are great at another role(caster, healer, etc) and not good at tanking and vice versa. There are many people trying out tanks now that just aren't familiar with how the class plays. Help those that are learning if they ask and be patient. If it doesn't workout you can make a choice, just have fun.

[Whiteroom]

Being a bad tank does not equate to a bad player, please don't make that assumption. I know many people who are great at another role(caster, healer, etc) and not good at tanking and vice versa. There are many people trying out tanks now that just aren't familiar with how the class plays. Help those that are learning if they ask and be patient. If it doesn't workout you can make a choice, just have fun.

......Woosh

[MeridaQ]

Yeah this is just a bad tanking thing, I have many people in my FC who say DRK and WAR tanks are squishy and I just have to keep saying that those are just bad tanks. Sorry that there are so many people having issues with this but let's not keep this misconception going. I teach people how to tank all the time, so hopefully someone will do the same for those learning tanking. Anyways sorry OP hope it gets better and if they are on Ultos point them my way.

[Syzygian]

When i war in dungeons i only go into deliverance for triple-cleave, which you actually pop a fair few defensive cds for. After the double or triple cleave is done i'm back in defiance. Havent had a problem yet. I start and end each pull in defiance 99% of the time.

[Tyrial]

When i war in dungeons i only go into deliverance for triple-cleave, which you actually pop a fair few defensive cds for. After the double or triple cleave is done i'm back in defiance. Havent had a problem yet. I start and end each pull in defiance 99% of the time.

Only time you should be using Fell Cleave is on a single mob, if there are two or more up Decimate always wins. The only time Defiance is needed is if you've got a dumb healer or you're not up to par with your gear and can't handle the incoming damage. Not throwing you under the bus or saying you're bad, but if you're familiar with WAR then you're just gimping yourself by sitting in Defiance so much. It literally does nothing meaningful for us defensively aside from giving access to Inner Beast and a small HP bonus (which is meaningless once you're starting to take damage).

Honestly, this is what happens when game developers pander to gamers who think tactics are breath mints. You get tanks who don't know the fundamentals of the role (or ignore them completely when told of them) and think they're something they're not. I appreciate doing decent damage to maintain an enemy's attention but I know that my primary duty as a tank is to keep enemies looking at me. In the case of Warrior, that means using Defiance first and foremost and using Deliverance when I know no one else has a chance of stealing hate from me.

Edit: As an aside, anyone who says more than 10% (at the most) of DPS players can't out-damage a tank really needs to have a seat. Or meet some actual DPS'ers rather than inventing scarecrows for such absurd arguments.

The vast majority of the DPS you run into in a DF Expert aren't going to pull more DPS than a WAR who understands the job and gears appropriately. Maybe it's just my data center...I don't know. As for your Defiance comment...see above.