The Real Problem with Parsers

[Archaell]

Ok, you dislike elitists - I dislike elitists too. Elitists can be reported for harassment, so it is something each individual can fix.

There is no indicator when somebody isn't paying attention and you can't report them. As much as you believe that elitists are bad, I do believe that players who exploit others for free tomes are bad. There just isn't a way to deal with this issue which exists in the game.

Saying that if you are bad you should play dps jobs is making me furious. No. If you are bad you should try to improve. Every player in the group should share the same amount of responsibility. That's equal treatment. It shouldn't be play dps if you want to be irresponsible. The goal of every member of the group is to finish the run. Unfortunately players aren't considering others in their "single-player" game to do their best so something like parser is needed to make their contribution visible.

Not all players are nice. Elitist can be as toxic as slacker. The most annoying is when poor dps player blames the bard or whoever that the group is failing dps checks. With the public tools they wouldn't be able to do that.

[TiaHeart]

Ok, you dislike...

If only it were so simple. You know 90 percent of those casuals wont care to make the effort to file a report? They just think the game is shit, not because the game, but because the players are. They know one way to #dealwithit is move on and maybe do better things with their time. You expect everyone to involve to care as much as you do. THAT is not "too realistic"

...report them.

Well you can try to kick them for harassment if you feel sb is just expecting you to farm for them. Sounds like harassment. If you need a parser to proof your suspection, it cant be that bad. If you suspect all 3 of em do it and vote no- oh well, very likely

I do believe...

So do I. But in 110 days of playtime i never felt there are many people i would have to label tomefarmers by idling. Except pvp maybe, but then again MAYBE they truly think uncontested nodes need to be deffed.

[TiaHeart]

Saying that if you are bad you should play dps jobs is making me furious

My point isnt if you are bad play dps, it is if you are bad dont tank/heal. If you KNOW you will be destroying others fun, dont do it.

No. If you are bad you should try to improve

Absolutely. Personal parsers for everyone even on playstation pls. However, no dps gets better by pointing his finger at the baddies. Youre just asking to "force" ppl to get better by bashing em. I do not condone that violence

[TiaHeart]

Every player in the group should share the same amount of responsibility

This is not "too realistic" it is impossible. He plays at 70 percent me at 90 u at 95. Swe all have to be at 95 now, until sb steps in to show us 100? There are better players and worse, and always be. There are players thriving for more and those who are satisfied. Stay out of df, manage your friendlist, make illusional pfs. Just please stay out of my game. I wont EVER share your standards. I dont want to.

The goal of every member of the group is to finish the run.

Exactly. Not to match your standards.

[ShanaShirayuki]

This is not "too realistic" it is impossible. He plays at 70 percent me at 90 u at 95. Swe all have to be at 95 now, until sb steps in to show us 100? There are better players and worse, and always be. There are players thriving for more and those who are satisfied. Stay out of df, manage your friendlist, make illusional pfs. Just please stay out of my game. I wont EVER share your standards. I dont want to.

No one is making the point that everyone should be performing at maximum, impeccable play. Using your own terms, a DPS that is doing only 30% of maximum output is bringing the party down and is putting more workload on the other 3/7 members. They play the game too, it isn't just your game, and having others suffer at the expense of underperforming players is not right. Tanks and healers get called out and kicked for not holding aggro / letting people die, DPS should not get a free pass on performing suboptimally. Sure there are those that just don't care and won't listen to feedback, but I'm certain there are more people who would be receptive to said feedback if they were aware of their poor numbers in comparison to others.

As for the argument that parsers potentially turn everyone into raging jackasses who only do so to belittle and kick others, I'll leave this here since it was conveniently ignored:

The day and weeks to follow when mch dropped, the community hated this class and lots of people recieved abuse or were outright excluded from content due to job choice.

I myself had first hand experience of being called out in the early days of Alex normal when a wipe happened due to failed dps check.

A mnk immediately said kick the mch they are shit dps to whicha healer in the group said, you do realize this mch is 300dps above you?

Food for thought.

Non parser users are quick enough to point the finger without having any evidence to back it up.

[TiaHeart]

No one is making the point that everyone should be performing at maximum, impeccable play.

Yes he did, I dont know why you quote me for answering him and then go on by saying stuff thats unrelated. He said every single member of a group should care and invest the same. And i elaborated if im a guy happy with 80 percent play, he studies the game a bit more to stand at 90 and therefore expects me to do the same cuz of his mentality. And i said further now this lucretia pro joins whos almost 100 percent mentality. You cant expect to me care AS MUCH. Not as much as him. Not as much as the pro. Not for the overall game. I will care exactly as much as i want to, completely ignoring your standard. You can do it in your hardcore raid team for all i care, just not in the game in general. There will always be people to care less than you do and it actually is their right. Period. Reality. Check reality. He said he was too realistic and therefore shouldnt guide the game in a sarcastic tone. In fact you guys have your head in the clouds. Nice ambitions, noble cause, not saying your demands were evi by nature. They are just naive, and counterproductive to ff14, SE and their balance, and a community as big as possible. I was locked out for max posts yesterday, now I would be just as much as of a broken record to aiselia as you are to the other dude.

Its about money, its about as many players catered as possible, its about a majority of bad players, its about ppl like you -while maybe on the forum representing the majority because most do not make the effort/dont want to- actually being a minority in the game and for the product

Nobody said NONE of them cared. Some sure do. But imho yes the personal parser is better for them, for now. Also for the same reasons as aiselia wrote. No they do not want to be displayed with 350 dps to everyone else when tank does 500 other dd 800. No they do not need you to tell them "omg wtf u so bad bro". They need to see their own number being 350, and seing at the doll how it changes if they try different rotations. They need to see it in mobgroups, they need to see it on bosses, they need to see it while handling mechanics. They need to be able to ASK others their numbers and compare, they need to be able to ask where an ilvl 190 nin should ROUGHLY stand (yes we all know it isnt that simple. Please do not answer with a post on what the answer would depend on lol) or check for referances on the web. Thats the basic first step some people need and it wont have as many downsides as a global parser.

Actually, ive gotten a few parsers on rare occasions like bis ex rav ex a1s. They were all over the place ranging 600 to 980, but those 3 or 4 numbers simply told without having the ability to watch em evolve obviously doesnt help. Personal parser does.

Sure its EASIER and MORE EFFECTIVE with direct comparison via global parse, but first and foremost they need to know their own performance that only they will know so they dont have to fear embarassment, harassment and what not. They are easygoing and want to be pampered not abused, disrespected or talked down to. Denying these downsides exist for horribads is again, NOT realistic. Yes people get kicked for their performance. And all you people prove why so "its not fair that i have to carry more workload. Its not fair t n h get kicked when underperformin, dps needs the same treatment for fairness" -> you expect to be handed a tool comfortably For that destructive mindset? Pls nonono, its your idea of "fairness" and how you need to fight for that sort of fairness, why it shall NOT happen.

"Oh come on as if people would really ride on others for their numbers and performance if there were global parsers". You do it every second line of your posts and then say it wasnt a problem. Nuts. Bonkers. Cuckooo

[ShanaShirayuki]

-Yes he did, I dont know why you quote me for answering him and then go on by saying stuff thats unrelated. There will always be people to care less than you do and it actually is their right.


-No they do not need you to tell them "omg wtf u so bad bro"


-Sure its EASIER and MORE EFFECTIVE with direct comparison via global parse, but first and foremost they need to know their own performance that only they will know so they dont have to fear embarassment, harassment and what not. They are easygoing and want to be pampered not abused, disrespected or talked down to. Denying these downsides exist for horribads is again, NOT realistic.

-"Oh come on as if people would really ride on others for their numbers and performance if there were global parsers". You do it every second line of your posts and then say it wasnt a problem. Nuts. Bonkers. Cuckooo

1. You were indirectly asking someone else to get involved with an entitled comment such as "it's my game, get out of my game and stick with PF, friend's list, etc." Also, I did mention that there would be those who would not care, so thanks for reiterating my point.

2. Yes, there are those that do this, but lumping everyone else who constructively use a parser in with the bad apples is fear-mongering. Plain and simple.

3. They need to know the context of their damage in comparison with others, otherwise if they see they're doing 600 DPS instead of the 1000 they should be with their current gear, they'll think they are doing fine. Your comments are very patronizing as well as laced with the same fear-mongering that I addressed earlier.

4. Again, harassment DOES happen, I never denied such. Lastly, your insults only weaken the point you're trying to make.

[TiaHeart]

Using your own terms, a DPS that is doing only 30% of maximum output is bringing the party down and is putting more workload on the other 3/7 members.

and having others suffer at the expense of underperforming players is not right.

Tanks and healers get called out and kicked for not holding aggro / letting people die, DPS should not get a free pass on performing suboptimally

"As for the argument that parsers potentially turn everyone into raging jackasses who only do so to belittle others" - really? Really? Im out of here, pointless

[TiaHeart]

Ok, you dislike elitists. I do too

Im not sure. i think you dislike casuals and again the majority of players. I think you set yourself a high standard which is great, but try to force it on others which is bad. And pick extreme examples to justify your cause. Im still under the impression you are an elitist. Sorry thats just how people perceive

Not all players are nice. Elitist can be as toxic as slacker. The most annoying is when poor dps player blames the bard or whoever that the group is failing dps checks. With the public tools they wouldn't be able to do that.

100% true. My experience is elititists are a more "real" threat while i wont play down the later part.

[Archaell]

Im not sure. i think you dislike casuals and again the majority of players. I think you set yourself a high standard which is great, but try to force it on others which is bad. And pick extreme examples to justify your cause. Im still under the impression you are an elitist. Sorry thats just how people perceive

I love casuals, I even consider myself to be a casual. But casual doesn't mean that you shouldn't do your part of the work. You are mixing two things.

If somebody wants to be an ice mage? Well let them be an ice mage. It is their choice. But let the rest of the group know that they have an ice mage in the group.