The Real Problem with Parsers

[rappa]

Snip

Good job Sherlock, this char is my alter and in my second post i omitted some facts.


The point doesn't change anything. Two bad players with zero knowledge about the game, being 50+, kicked another one. I tried to kick the bard because he didn't respond me after a lot of questions.

The fact, parsers would help those players to know how far they are wrong. But Aiselia, trying to justify the unreasonable, being a White Knight against Parsers. Trying to protect the ignorance over knowledge.

All players have theirs playstyle and vision of the game. Being slacker, lazy or ignorant is not acceptable.

One example: You play 1 hour each day and have to cap esoterics. you try to queue as healer to reduce queue time. Then you are pairing with 2 dps with 200+ ilvl. Your first though is -"Nice, will be a smooth run"-. Wrong. One of the dps is spamming the same ability and the other one use 1-2-3 combo without positionals. After 20 mins and a few wipes in the second boss, you try to encourage dps to do their job. They go upset because one of them or both are watching a tv-serie and you are kicked wasting your time.

One solution is play with friends, yeah, right. If i play with my friends, neither of them queue alone. If nobody queue alone, try to do a roulette as dps. Would take long time during off-peak.

One part of the fault is SE, they force to players to git gud but don't put any messure to git gud.

A few weeks ago we needed a replacement because one of our raider had holidays and we wante to clear savage that week. We tried to search one dragoon and we tested in faust. Our ilvl requisite was 200+, neither of the dragoons could pass 1k dps, bad rotations, attacking from the front, attacking one add and dying. A lot of sorrows in our search of an average player.

[Aiselia]

The point doesn't change anything. Two bad players with zero knowledge about the game, being 50+, kicked another one. I tried to kick the bard because he didn't respond me after a lot of questions.

Actually, it does change things. You said that you told him that Mind accessories don't do anything and when he said that it was for MP, you told him that Piety gave MP, not Mind. Your screenshot shows none of that. It's logically safe to assume that you didn't tell him Piety gave MP rather than Mind BEFORE your screenshot, as the "Give MP" reason was not said until your screenshot, so you couldn't have responded to that before being told it.


You claim that you were trying to give him information, but your screenshot only shows you responding to it with a failed vote kick attempt and a facepalm. In other words, you were kicked for acting like a jerk to them, not because you were trying to help. That makes you an example of the people who shouldn't have their paws on parsers, because you skipped the "Trying to help someone get better" and went straight for "LOLKICK".

The fact, parsers would help those players to know how far they are wrong.

And I said it before, a parser is not required at all to point out that a Bard should be using Dex because it's their main stat. What is required is the patience to point it out rather than jump to kick.

being a White Knight against Parsers.

Except I'm still not against parsers. I'm against people abusing them, and I think people should prove that they can handle them before asking for them. I also think people should come up with good arguments rather than "This person was wearing gear that was factually incorrect for their class and I tried to kick them instead of help them and got kicked instead". If the facts that none of their left side gear has Mind on it and their weapon has Dex and the game flat out tells you what the stats are used for are not able to convince someone that they should wear Dex accessories over Mind, a DPS number won't.

One example: You play 1 hour each day and have to cap esoterics. you try to queue as healer to reduce queue time. Then you are pairing with 2 dps with 200+ ilvl. Your first though is -"Nice, will be a smooth run"-. Wrong. One of the dps is spamming the same ability and the other one use 1-2-3 combo without positionals. After 20 mins and a few wipes in the second boss, you try to encourage dps to do their job. They go upset because one of them or both are watching a tv-serie and you are kicked wasting your time.

Which a parser won't do anything about. If someone's just spamming the same ability and the other's just doing 1-2-3 and ignoring positionals and both are 200+ ilvl (which means they must have at least one 210 item, which means both must have passed at least some Savage), it's a pretty safe bet that they don't care what DPS they're doing, so shoving a number at them will still get you kicked.

That's why you should come up with real arguments why a parser should be added, like showing where people actually would be helped, rather than pointing out hopeless situations.

[Jamein]

And I said it before, a parser is not required at all to point out that a Bard should be using Dex because it's their main stat. What is required is the patience to point it out rather than jump to kick.

Having a parser may have pointed out to him that his DPS was absolutely abysmal long before though and made him go look at what was wrong.

Except I'm still not against parsers. I'm against people abusing them, and I think people should prove that they can handle them before asking for them.

Guilty until proven innocent, I like it. Let's all prove we can use a tool for its intended purpose by not being allowed to use/speak of the tool in game because you'll get reported. Seems logical.

I also think people should come up with good arguments rather than "This person was wearing gear that was factually incorrect for their class and I tried to kick them instead of help them and got kicked instead". If the facts that none of their left side gear has Mind on it and their weapon has Dex and the game flat out tells you what the stats are used for are not able to convince someone that they should wear Dex accessories over Mind, a DPS number won't.

Personally I think people need to come up with better counter arguments than 'people are mean' but that's what it always comes down to in these threads. As for the game telling you about stats, yup sure you're correct it does however without a valid way to see/compare your DPS numbers with others for all you know you're doing absolutely fine DPS even with those accessories, until you come across someone else who is doing a boatload more than you, and then you stop and think and say hey hold up, that guy is better than me, lets figure this out or ask him.

Which a parser won't do anything about. If someone's just spamming the same ability and the other's just doing 1-2-3 and ignoring positionals and both are 200+ ilvl (which means they must have at least one 210 item, which means both must have passed at least some Savage), it's a pretty safe bet that they don't care what DPS they're doing, so shoving a number at them will still get you kicked.

The point is, parsers over a period of time and constant use would let you see what you are doing, is your DPS improving? Is someone else absolutely trashing you? If they are it will cause a lot of people to think twice about what they do. I'm not saying EVERYONE will go out and see if the rotation they are using is correct but even if just 1/5 people do that's STILL creating a better community and raising the average skill level in the game. Right now people have NOTHING to go on, they literally don't know what numbers they are pulling so they will assume they are doing just fine which is causing problems in fights with DPS checks.

That's why you should come up with real arguments why a parser should be added, like showing where people actually would be helped, rather than pointing out hopeless situations.

The benefits of people being able to see and compare their DPS is just great, it makes people actually think about what they are doing, not everyone will care to improve but those people who simply think they are doing well, but actually aren't will have something to show them they are seriously behind and would give them a reason to go out and look for some help or ask.

[Aiselia]

Having a parser may have pointed out to him that his DPS was absolutely abysmal long before though and made him go look at what was wrong.

The game flat out states that Piety is for MP, Mind is for healing, and Dex is for increasing damage for Bards.

According to the screenshot of the person's lodestone profile, they have a 60 DRG, which means it's not even their first class.

In the time it took to level a character to 60, they either never bothered to learn what stats actually do or just plain didn't care. Now, given that their lodestone profile screenshot also shows an accessory with a purple gem (Dex, because Amethyst jewelry gives dex) but what appears to be Hard Leather Wristbands (level 17 accessory but has Dex) and an empty ring slot, I'd say that the more likely scenario is that they don't give a damn either way because they didn't even bother equipping a second ring or upgrading their bracelets for 30 levels.

In other words, a parser won't prove anything to them when they haven't even cared enough to fully equip themselves. Period.

Guilty until proven innocent, I like it.

Blame the people in this thread who outright state they want parsers so they can kick people out of their roulette runs for making them take 5-10 minutes longer. Blame the people in this thread who will attack someone's DPS without even ever having grouped with them before because assumptions. Very few of the pro-parser arguers have proven themselves to be mature enough to handle talking about parsers, much less use one and be allowed to call people out on it.

Personally I think people need to come up with better counter arguments than 'people are mean'

Except they don't, because it's a perfectly valid reason.

If you don't want to play with people with low DPS, the game isn't forcing you to. You are perfectly free to create groups for any and everything. Expert roulette and High level roulette even let you go as a fully premade group. Low level and trial roulette may not let you queue as a group, but you don't get anything from there that you couldn't get from running dungeons with a premade group.

Which is why "I want to be able to kick people out of MY roulette runs for wasting MY time" is a terrible argument on the side of parsers. Nobody forces you to run with them. You chose to roll the dice for what you get, you should have to live with it.

People like you wanting to shrug aside valid reasons because you can't argue against them is also why I came up with other reasons, not the least of which is "console limitations", which is allegedly why we didn't even have a TP bar for so long even though it was more objectively useful than knowing what bonus stat you're giving the party.

The point is, parsers over a period of time and constant use would let you see what you are doing

Yes, I know, and that's why I support parsers in a limited scope and am not against them. Which I already said. That you responded to. So you should know that. So you're wasting your time trying to convince me.

That also has nothing to do with people who have clearly cleared at least some Savage Alexander intentionally just mashing whatever because they don't care.

If they are it will cause a lot of people to think twice about what they do.

Or it will cause an increase in harassment reports. Whether they're acted on or not, that's GM time that has to be spent on stuff, which backlogs the GMs and makes what could be more important issues get pushed later, which then annoys the customers who want a fast response but can't get them because the GMs are too busy dealing with reports about people trashing them over their DPS.

Is a possibility of people caring about their DPS objectively worth the extra time and money that SE will have to spend on handling harassment tickets and a slower response time for potentially more important matters?