Immersion, The Facts & Fiction

[Crica]

leaving the quote in its FF9 context it will always mean helping someone in need in a positive moral way

Therein lies the reason - the reason to help is because it is morally positive to do so - thereby annulling the statement.

Sorry, back to the topic.

[Finuve]

Therein lies the reason - the reason to help is because it is morally positive to do so - thereby annulling the statement.

Sorry, back to the topic.

if someone wants to steal a car, you would help them by talking them out of it, and maybe helping them get a job

and I'm pretty sure any reason to stay on topic in this thread is long since gone, people clamoring for immersion want to inconvenience other people, people who don't want this want to ruin immersion fans fun

if this conversation is to continue it needs to move into a discussion that promotes both fun and immersion, could start by fixing the teleport animations

[Crica]

if someone wants to steal a car, you would help them by talking them out of it, and maybe helping them get a job

They want you to help them steal the car, they do not want you to help them get a job.

[Finuve]

They want you to help them steal the car, they do not want you to help them get a job.

I'm sure you understand the point but are just trying to counterpoint

Helping someone steal a car isnt helping at all, even if they perceive it as such, helping someone would be pushing them back onto a moral path (lets not drag this too far into long annoying instances of grey areas though) or helping someone in need, food water health training etc

[Crica]

I'm sure you understand the point but are just trying to counterpoint

Helping someone steal a car isnt helping at all, even if they perceive it as such, helping someone would be pushing them back onto a moral path (lets not drag this too far into long annoying instances of grey areas though) or helping someone in need, food water health training etc

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/help

Help - to give or provide what is necessary to accomplish the task.

The task is to steal a car - he is asking you to "help" him accomplish the task of stealing a car.

[Konachibi]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/help

Help - to give or provide what is necessary to accomplish the task.

The task is to steal a car - he is asking you to "help" him accomplish the task of stealing a car.

Yup, to use the literal sense of the word 'help' would mean they would help you steal the car.

To use the moral sense of the word 'help', they would do what they could to stop you from attempting it.

[Crica]

Yup, to use the literal sense of the word 'help' would mean they would help you steal the car.

To use the moral sense of the word 'help', they would do what they could to stop you from attempting it.

Moral sense of the word?

Sorry, I am not understanding.

When you help someone, the outcome of the help can be moral or immoral, productive or non-productive.

But the word "help" is not moral.

[Konachibi]

if someone wants to steal a car, you would help them by talking them out of it, and maybe helping them get a job

and I'm pretty sure any reason to stay on topic in this thread is long since gone, people clamoring for immersion want to inconvenience other people, people who don't want this want to ruin immersion fans fun

if this conversation is to continue it needs to move into a discussion that promotes both fun and immersion, could start by fixing the teleport animations

Speechless...

Really, I am.

Awesome! (b'.')b

I say we go with this idea, instead of going at each others throats about what immersion is and isn't, we discuss things that could improve our ability to become immersed in the game and it's many bits'n'pieces.

Teleport animations defenitely, especially if it means my frame-rate doesn't drop from 30 to 3 everytime someone uses it.

Someway for clothes to change without the character dissapearing, though to be honest the only other possible options I can think of is either to make huge animations that show the character physically changing their clothes which would take too long and spend too much time developing for something that's not really that important, or to make the characters clothes change without the character dissapearing, like *popping* clothes. Though that'd probably be a bit daft. But then that's the system other mmo's use. I guess in a way I kinda do prefer the character dissapearing :3

Does kinda get annoying when you're swapping loads of gear though and it takes ages 'cos your character keeps popping on and off the screen.